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[SUGGESTION] Catacombs Rework

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  • [SUGGESTION] Catacombs Rework

    I'm back with another one of these, this time on the catacombs aspect of the game, as I think there could be improvements with this mode.

    Make all the modes have the same monster strength.

    You've probably noticed that the harder modes generally give weak monsters and vice versa. Make all the monsters base level equal to your keeper level, and then changed based on the quantity (> 4 less, < more) and a modifier that increases some monsters by 1 or 2 levels.

    The amount of event points earned will now be determined by the mode modifier and by the level of all heroes alive at the end.

    'New' Feature: Monster Complexity

    As you progress in the catacombs, the monsters will become more varied, just like in the campaign mode. Each monster type has a 'complexity' value, and if a threshold (determined by the event points + constant) is reached then it is possible for that monster type to appear in that battle.

    Explanation (Technical Warning):
    Let's start with a standard placement on monsters, like this:
    x x x
    x x x
    x x x
    x = Warriors or Tanks can go here
    x = Warriors or Damage Dealers can go here
    x = Damage Dealers or Supporters can go here

    A number is randomly chosen for each slot where a monster is placed.
    Of course, there should also be a probability that no monster is placed in a slot, but there is at least one monster placed in the first and last row.

    Now consider this chart:
    Monster Class Threshold
    Goblin Warrior 0
    Bandit Damage Dealer 0
    Orc Tank 0
    Goblin Trickster Support 0
    Bandit Archer Damage Dealer 30
    Harlequin Support 40
    Kobold Warrior 50
    Bandit Bruiser Tank 60
    Bandit Cutthroat Damage Dealer 70
    Orc Shaman Support 80
    Orc Warrior Warrior 100
    Orc Scout Damage Dealer 110
    Ogre Tank 125
    Skeletal Mage Support 140
    Bandit Lord Damage Dealer 150
    Plague Demon Warrior 175
    Skeletal Warrior Tank 200
    Let's say the player has 30 event points and the constant is 100.

    In the first row, Ogres and Orc Warriors (and any lower monster in those classes, determined by the random number picked) can appear.
    In the second row, highest monsters are Orc Warriors and Orc Scouts.
    In the third row, highest monsters are Orc Scouts and Orc Shamans.

    Probably going to add to this eventually.
    Last edited by Junior Monkey; 06-12-17, 01:02 AM.
    , ,
    Originally posted by Cupid Monkey
    I love you Bloons. So much, that I want to pop you.

  • #2
    I like this suggestion. Change up catacombs. Right now it is just a total slog fest.


    • #3
      I'm guessing the greater complexity is supposed to create a sense of excitement as your progress through the catacombs builds up. The problem imo is that the catacombs already progresses so slowly--you play like a hundred levels without even maxing out--that the something like a "complexity value" will climb too gradually to be felt.

      You'll end up with an extremely bland experience for the first 50 wins, and the most exciting battles will be gated behind a massive time wall that most players don't have the time or possibly levels to reach.

      I'd suggest a complexity constant that climbs rapidly over 5-10 fights, and resets after every reward is collected. This way, you're constantly cycling through easy -> difficult, so the experience feels more fresh, and the sense of achievement at each reward milestone is much more engaging when it mirrors the level of fights you're in. You start off with simple fights, as if you're just entering a new section of the catacombs, then as you near the next milestone, the fights become harder and harder, the tension and stakes rising the closer your goal comes into view.

      It'd also be nice to know which levels you can afk and which levels you have to tryhard for.


      • #4
        Honestly I like how it is already. Making random things more difficult can lead to disaster. (I'm looking at you Ranger/Shaman/Blackguard/ and Samurai or Kensai? something else? forget which, PvP formation in lvl 45+ wizard's chosen) Even now, you have the chance of getting rekt by random formations containing "just the right formation" of monsters. Vile Assassin and Beholder are both really nasty, especially on +damage and +attack&defense modes. Granted, I haven't lost a single catacombs match since I got my Wand of Endless Suffering and Strength of Legend, but before you get these epic items it can be difficult to maintain all 4 heroes alive at the end of some delves if you're mildly unlucky. Not only that but the current state of catacombs makes some otherwise "meh" heroes notably more useful (I'm looking at you Templar). Finally, there's actually a huge number of things that need addressed more urgently than catacombs. Hero balance, equipment balance, wizard's chosen, hidden game mechanics (that shouldn't be hidden), memory leaks, and plenty more, need attention now. (hero balance and equipment balance especially. If catacombs were made harder and then heroes and items were nerfed, it'd be a disaster)

        The only change to catacombs that I'd endorse right now is making maps, instead of clearing a single battle, clear an entire reward tier, in addition to making them MUCH rarer. As it stands now catacomb maps feel so worthless. The time I save using a map over clearing a non-defensive bonus'd floor with my WL is incredibly small.


        • #5
          I don't have any epics, and the only time I lose in the catacombs is when I get an unlucky horde, maybe 5% of the time. However, I don't mind getting unlucky in the catacombs and losing. It forces me to actually try and play the battles out. When I play it properly and succeed, it feels even better.

          It's terribly boring when you mindlessly win every match. Decision making and tension are good things. Walking through free wins is bad. The game's already grindy enough, removing the few punctuated moments of uncertainty would leave only pure grind.


          • #6
            I've expanded on the chart since, although it's still mostly unfinished it should give an idea on how the ramping should work.
            , ,
            Originally posted by Cupid Monkey
            I love you Bloons. So much, that I want to pop you.