Top 5 Most Overrated Towers

[BTD Battles Scrub]

First Strike: can kill 20 grouped MOABS, 10 BFBS, or 1 ZOMG anywhere on the track in 1 powerup no problem.

Is this before or after r30 because before player-sent MOABs have 1/2 HP and after that they get their full HP?

[Ptolemy2002]

Is this before or after r30 because before player-sent MOABs have 1/2 HP and after that they get their full HP?

It is Before round 30.

[The Mochinator]

Alright...once again, it seems I have gotten completely wrecked by naturespirit. I'e ignored this post for long enough; it's time to see if I can fix some of the damage.

As before, keep in mind that this is not supposed to be a list of the 5 most popular towers in the game that opens the eyes of every player from beginner to expert and revolutionizes the strategies used in the game. More specifically, it's an attempt to help new players just a little more in their travels to the top. With that in mind, these are likely the towers that most of these new players use and how the towers are used. I'm here to point those issues out.

5. No ones uses this so it has no place on the list.

Maybe not, but quite a few good players like Aliensrock and ISAB use or have used super monkeys to try to go late game. This was really the best tower I could fit into this list for #5, as I simply had no other ideas.

4. For a while engineer was one of the best towers for defend mode and it's still good on pools if you use it correctly. I wouldn't say it's overrated, you're just pointing out all its weaknesses and how bad players use it poorly.

Defend mode, huh? I do feel kind of ashamed for forgetting about that. However, apart from Pools, engineer has a very limited niche in Assault, if any at all. The problem is that so many players rely on bloon traps for eco AND rush defense. That's the player overestimation that is addressed down below.

3. The reactor is not overrated, on most maps with the reactor and a few chippers you can defend an all out rainbow rush, if someone even does that, rainbows are expensive. If you get all out r13 every time then either you must have been playing horribly or you've been playing noobs.

Probably a bit of both :/

But yeah, you and Mr. Scrub have convinced me that the stuff about sub was a pile of banana sandwiches (BS for short).

2. Ninja is not overrated by anyone with common sense. It's a late game tower not early game, you're just pointing out how bad players use it incorrectly. If a bunch of noobs use like 4 0/0 chippers on an all out grouped yellow rush does that make the tower bad or overrated? No it makes the player bad. Please stop assuming most people think the ninja is better than it is.

Here's my reasoning on this. The reason the tower is "overrated" is because it is being overrated by many noob players. The less-skilled players of the game overrate the upgrades of the ninja/bloonchipper by expecting it to pop grouped regrow rushes. I dunno, maybe I'm still talking out of my rear.

1. All wizards make regrow rushes worse, not just tornado ones. Also you're acting like wizard is useless.

It's pretty helpful on short maps since they are cheap and will actually pop stuff since there's not enough time for it to get worse due to your towers following up on the pops quickly.

Again, Pools is the only place where wizard really fits in competitive matches between skilled players. The problem is that wizard has no niche outside of Pools and a couple other maps, but noobs keep trying to fit it into one.

Just like my other post, you seem to feel at least a little strongly about my list here. I'll try asking you, then: What is your list for top 5 most overrated towers? You seem to know a lot about the game; you should be able to give me another good list.

[naturespirit]

5. I said this with classic in mind and an actual match, not where you try to go for world records or play clubs. Also if you think ISAB and Tyler are good at the game, no wonder you think I'm good at the game.

4. Again, like I said with ninja, that's just people being stupid.

3. Good

2. It's not really people "overrating" ninja, it's just that they're ignorant about the game and don't know how bad ninja is vs grouped bloons.

1. I said short maps, that also applies to maps like zen garden and wizard's keep, not just pools.

Instead of saying the top 5 overrated towers, because imo there aren't really any right now, since it's mostly just ignorance. I'm just going to say the youtubers are overrated and if you want to actually improve at the game, watch mkoth/icbc videos and watch the tutorials where Toast schools Bruno and Locky on good strategies to use on maps.

[Ptolemy2002]

Just like my other post, you seem to feel at least a little strongly about my list here. I'll try asking you, then: What is your list for top 5 most overrated towers? You seem to know a lot about the game; you should be able to give me another good list.

1. Mortar
2. Tack shooter
3. Sniper
4. Dartling gunner
5. Banana farm

[The Mochinator]

5. I said this with classic in mind and an actual match, not where you try to go for world records or play clubs. Also if you think ISAB and Tyler are good at the game, no wonder you think I'm good at the game.

4. Again, like I said with ninja, that's just people being stupid.

3. Good

2. It's not really people "overrating" ninja, it's just that they're ignorant about the game and don't know how bad ninja is vs grouped bloons.

1. I said short maps, that also applies to maps like zen garden and wizard's keep, not just pools.

Instead of saying the top 5 overrated towers, because imo there aren't really any right now, since it's mostly just ignorance. I'm just going to say the youtubers are overrated and if you want to actually improve at the game, watch mkoth/icbc videos and watch the tutorials where Toast schools Bruno and Locky on good strategies to use on maps.

Meh, I'm not gonna bother trying much harder to keep my flimsy walls of defense up for this thread. So I'll just see if I can swat away your nitpicking on my choice of words. First of all, I say "good" not meaning "best player in the world" or "wins every match in KOTH" or anything like that. I just mean good as in "one of the higher-level players in the game, but by no means one of the best." I guess the hierarchy could be considered something like "atrocious, awful, bad, poor, mediocre, okay, good, great, amazing, unbeatable." Good, of course, is not at the highest end. Oh yeah, and then I also said "pools and a few other maps" in my reply for 1, and simply "pools" another time, so I guess I see where that confusion came from.

[The Mochinator]

Oops, I forgot to answer to Ptolemy's counterarguments! Might as well treat everyone equal.

The late game stuff pretty much balances the entire tower there.

Not really. The fact that super monkey is completely unviable at every stage of the game except past round 30 makes for a pretty crappy tower.

Not true at all. Not one bit.

Are you sure about that? Keep in mind that the robo plasma has trouble taking down a few FC BFBs and their immediate MOAB children, and is still several times more expensive than the SMFC.

Then don't use blade sacrifices.

That's not the issue. The issue that even with the blade sacrifices, the temple is still not quite strong enough. In my opinion, anyway. Maybe it's just my soft spot for Flash stuff acting up again, though.

You just proved why this tower IS NOT overrated.

The tower is overrated for its limited niche of the first 7 rounds of the game. After that it becomes obsolete. In Assault, anyway. Defense gives engineer a good chance in the game.

Then get multiple bloon traps.

Uh, cost? Keep in mind that the bloon trap is a little more expensive than a banana plantation and doesn't return nearly as much; not to mention that earlier engineer upgrades do not generate cash while the farm does.

You do have a point there...

Yay.

They don't use it to POP the bloons, they use it to TAKE AWAY regrow/camo properties so that OTHER TOWERS can pop the bloons.

Uh, what? My reaction to this sentence was presumably the same as naturespirit's reaction to me saying the cannon is an underrated tower. Reactor does indeed pop bloons when submerged, and it only removes camo, not regrow. Build a reactor in the Battle Park pool, get rid of every other attacking tower, and see for yourself. (Eh, and 2/0 chipper for ceramics.)

Depends on what upgrades you have for the dart monkeys. Triple darts can definately defend that.

Yeah, in one game I had like 3 triple darts and a jug behind the reactor and I boosted. No dice.

First Strike: can kill 20 grouped MOABS, 10 BFBS, or 1 ZOMG anywhere on the track in 1 powerup no problem.
Spike storm: can defend 1 ZOMG with 5 powerups. Otherwise, you have to wait until the MOAB classes get to the end and it usually just flies past your spikes. Even if you kill it, you can't defend the ceramics that come after. Also, spike machine gains power OVER TIME whereas the sub has power ALL THE TIME.

Once again, I have a sneaking suspicion that my soft spot for Flash stuff is the culprit again. Still, in late game spike factory deals more collateral damage to blimps during late game as sub loses its instakill power.

Doesn't mean a bad TOWER, just means a bad PLAYER.

I'll surrender that one to you and naturespirit.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

When someone uses a ninja as their first and only tower, send reds, blues, and greens and the ninja user will die. Perhaps layer some pinks as well.

Nah, that's the Mortar by FAR.

But no one uses the mortar, so it's not overrated. Just okay/bad. Everyone uses the *vomit* wizard though.

It pushes back the bloons. with a tempest tornado, you can keep the bloons away so that it never gets past the track. Also, your other towers will be able to handle it.

Not regrows. Tornado wizards will multiply the regrows like crazy until you die. It's viable against normal/camo ceramics, and...that's it.

That's because The monkey Apprentice isn't good against regrows. Regular bloons get owned.

True, but there's still many better options--one 2/0 chipper, for example.

What you did in this post was take some of the best towers, and name them "overrated" because of really small thing that don't even reflect the point of the tower. All of these "overrated" towers are in the top 10 list for the best towers.

Super monkey ranks 3rd.
Engineer ranks 10th.
Sub ranks 6th.
Ninja ranks 5th.
Apprentice ranks 4th.

You need to actually see the goal of the existence of the tower and then judge it by that instead of judging it by the parts that they are horrible at because they were not meant for that purpose.

Yeah, I'll give you that. But I still disagree with many of your counters.

[Ptolemy2002]

Not really. The fact that super monkey is completely unviable at every stage of the game except past round 30 makes for a pretty crappy tower.

Normally, I would agree with that, but the super monkey is so good, I just can't.

Are you sure about that? Keep in mind that the robo plasma has trouble taking down a few FC BFBs and their immediate MOAB children, and is still several times more expensive than the SMFC.

By the time you start getting super monkeys, you have like 5000 eco and it doesn't even matter how good that upgrade is because you can get technological terror easily after that.

That's not the issue. The issue that even with the blade sacrifices, the temple is still not quite strong enough. In my opinion, anyway. Maybe it's just my soft spot for Flash stuff acting up again, though.

Ok. I can accept that.

The tower is overrated for its limited niche of the first 7 rounds of the game. After that it becomes obsolete. In Assault, anyway. Defense gives engineer a good chance in the game.

Not obsolete...

Uh, cost? Keep in mind that the bloon trap is a little more expensive than a banana plantation and doesn't return nearly as much; not to mention that earlier engineer upgrades do not generate cash while the farm does.

Bloon trap is actually a pretty non-expensive tower. If you can pull off a bunch of spike machines, you can definately do multiple bloon traps.

Uh, what? My reaction to this sentence was presumably the same as naturespirit's reaction to me saying the cannon is an underrated tower. Reactor does indeed pop bloons when submerged, and it only removes camo, not regrow. Build a reactor in the Battle Park pool, get rid of every other attacking tower, and see for yourself. (Eh, and 2/0 chipper for ceramics.)

I know that it pops bloons, but that is not the purpose of getting the tower.

Yeah, in one game I had like 3 triple darts and a jug behind the reactor and I boosted. No dice.

If you had 2 more triple darts you probably could have done it.

When someone uses a ninja as their first and only tower, send reds, blues, and greens and the ninja user will die. Perhaps layer some pinks as well.

I forgot about that.

True, but there's still many better options--one 2/0 chipper, for example.

Try putting those two against each other on the Great divide map in sandbox mode in BTD5 and see which one is better.

[Guest]

Bloonjitsu is best, no doubt about it, so why is ninja on here.

[Guest]

My opinion:
5. Helicopter

Helicopters are good in most scenarios, but they are like robo dart heads, they barely have popping power, even apache struggles with regen ceramics. A lot of people, including myself, have used the helicopter to defend regen rushes of death.

4. tack shooter

A lot of people use tack shooters to defend rushes, I have seen a lot on flash, not so much on mobile, but still. Tack shooters are bad because ring of fire got nerfed to hell, even 2 have trouble defending all out regen rainbow rushes of death. They still can't see camo. just get a bloon impact and a cluster or bloonjitsu to defend regen rainbows, or a reactor with one or two clusters.

3. Engineers

Cleasing foam is pathetic.

2. Boats

Boats are good for maps with lots of water, but boats fall short in popping power, destroyer cannot defend grouped regens, nor can cannon ship, aircraft carrier is only avaible option.
1. Wizard

Wizards are way too expensive, lightning only hits 25, while glaive ricochet can hit more than 4* as much.

[The Mochinator]

Perhaps I will go try hard defense after all.

Normally, I would agree with that, but the super monkey is so good, I just can't.

Uh...okay? I still think the bloonchipper and spac outclass the super monkey even in late game.

By the time you start getting super monkeys, you have like 5000 eco and it doesn't even matter how good that upgrade is because you can get technological terror easily after that.

5000 eco? Dude, I'm not talking about Banana Megaboosts Play with Fire. I'm talking about normal assault games. You would have a hard time getting even 1.5 thousand eco by round 24, let alone FIVE thousand.

Ok. I can accept that.

Good.

Not obsolete...

Bloon trap is actually a pretty non-expensive tower. If you can pull off a bunch of spike machines, you can definately do multiple bloon traps.

4000 dollars is not inexpensive. I think you're still talking about PWF Bananza. In a normal game 4000 cash is a money drainer, especially if you're going eco instead of farms.

I know that it pops bloons, but that is not the purpose of getting the tower.

Yes...it...is. Why would it not be the purpose of buying the tower? If you only wanted to get rid of camo then just buy the 3/0 upgrade. 4/0 is purchased to destroy leads and grouped rushes. If you don't intend to do that then it's your loss, really.

If you had 2 more triple darts you probably could have done it.

Trust me, I did not come even close to popping them all. I was even trying to place more and more 0/3 dart monkeys and juggernauts and I still lost. I don't even think 6 0/3 dart monkeys and 2 juggernauts all with energy would have defended them all. Note that the bloons were much more tightly grouped together than normal yellow bloon sends.

I forgot about that.

One must not overlook the power of layering.

Try putting those two against each other on the Great divide map in sandbox mode in BTD5 and see which one is better.

I don't have BTD5 Mobile :/

Still, the point is not which is a better solo tower against one specific rush. Bloonchipper, before round 22, is strictly a support tower. It's not meant to solo a whole ceramic, it's meant to strip away the lead or ceramic layer so the dart monkey can pop it. Not to mention, the bloonchipper is much cheaper. At least bloonchipper will actually weaken regrow rushes in some (but not all) situations, while tornado wizards only cause them to multiply faster than a bunch of mutated rabbits and rush through your defenses faster than Usain Bolt on steroids while being chased by said mutated rabbits.

[The Mochinator]

Bloonjitsu is best, no doubt about it, so why is ninja on here.

My original point was to state that most players overrate the wrong upgrades for the ninja--for instance, assuming the Jitsu can pop regrow rushes when it really doesn't do crap.

[The Mochinator]

Oh...I think I found one last piece of ammunition to deflect.

No. actually, it is fire breath because it gives the wizard a lot more power over regrows, which are basically it's only weakness.

It's only weakness other than fast bloons, ceramics, MOABs, BFBs, and ZOMGs you mean? Fire wizards don't do any better than your 3 red-hot spikes against any decent-sized regrow rush. They completely suck against every blimp, and ZOMGs are 99.99% impossible to defeat with only wizards except in a private Megaboost Bananza match.

[naturespirit]

Oh...I think I found one last piece of ammunition to deflect.



It's only weakness other than fast bloons, ceramics, MOABs, BFBs, and ZOMGs you mean? Fire wizards don't do any better than your 3 red-hot spikes against any decent-sized regrow rush. They completely suck against every blimp, and ZOMGs are 99.99% impossible to defeat with only wizards except in a private Megaboost Bananza match.

You forgot to mention it's weak, has short range, and is expensive.

[The Mochinator]

Oh yeah, that too. Although I kinda did say it was weak though.