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Crosspath open suggestions

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  • Crosspath open suggestions

    Suggest ways to fix some crosspathing.
    EDIT: Some of the things here are incorrect today, so i went in and changed some stuff. I'll be using italics for any important changes

    Ninja: top path reigns supreme. why.
    0/1/2 distraction caltrops. The 0/2/2 caltrops already reveals camo, so there's no reason not to bring distraction with it too. The price of throwing slower should be actually worth it for a change!
    0/1/3: Let the flash bombs distract! They're the same thing as the caltrops. Let 'em knock back like 5% of the time! actually go the whole 9 yards and use the default destraction rate.

    Glue: Not much to change, but past 3rd tier, things get very broken with the crosspathing.
    5/2/0. Ok... why would you have an upgrade that's best with 2nd path up to tier 4, but then make it good with the third path at tier 5? There's NO reason! Just up the attack rate, you don't need to turn it into a friggin glue hose + splatter, when NOT ONLY is it tier 2 on another path, but splatter is unnecessarily expensive as hell to begin with! Just because it was a final tier upgrade in another game (which even there was unnecessary and also more expensive & unreliable than multiple glues) doesn't mean it's remotely justified here, even with liquifier & MOAB glue.
    0/2/4: Same story as the above. It's an upgrade that gets worse if you don't have the right crosspath, and is just a dumb upgrade in general to put after MOAB glue! Just make glue being popped off either pool, or have a chance of pooling, it's ridiculous and stupid, even today.

    Sniper: No changes, just wanted to say this one's really good. Same for boomer.
    Actually, not only is it really good, but 19.0 REALLY did this tower justice. Good on you for that one.

    Bomb: Seems like each specific path has it's crosspath. 2/0/4, 5/2/0, and... well, mauler. It's too directional for crosspathing, and even worse, because it has less to offer.
    0/2/4: Bring back "once every 3 shots" so it's not as overpowered, and make the missile launcher clusters more widespread & actually attack faster like before, so recursives hit many bloons over a larger area
    3/0/2 - 5/0/2: Make each size of bomb throw more frags for each upgrade, and have Bloon Crush frags do +1 damage with 16/24 frags. I'm surprised this one got in (albeit 3/4) of the way there. I'm glad it got some attention.
    2/3/2: Heavy bombs increase MOAB damage by 1(This one i'm not so sure about anymore, after overlooking bigger bombs & the added ceramic damage, which i like about it.) Let shrapnel hit the MOAB that the mauler hits. This way, shrapnel does more single target damage, while the heavy bombs are better for bigger clumps. Now there's ACTUALLY reason to go for either path Bottom path.

    I wanna know what you think & what else can be changed. (with respect to updates)
    Last edited by Kookeekwisp; 11-07-20, 09:57 PM. Reason: read top of post
    Favorite Tower: SPIKE FACTORY!

  • #2
    I was gonna add on to this, but i'd rather point out my top 5 favorite towers for crosspathing..

    5: WIZARD: The wizard is just good. It tackles pretty much every bloon type really well, except purple. It's main reason for being good is how little each path does to the others, with the middle being the least affectual, only adding new attacks. Even something like archmage could benefit from middle path. It already has shimmer for camo & it's pierce is already buffed. In fact, making the projectiles faster might be a detriment & already is in some cases. But again, they don't affect each other much/at all, so it's lower.

    4: BOOMER: This, along with others, is mostly good because it's upgrades can only affect it's main attack, and have pretty fair interactions. It's not as good because they can be mathed out, having red hot glaives be pretty good, but faster glaives being less good in general, but it's still pretty balanced, even up to 3rd tier, except for kylie which has a "heavy" use for faster firing, which makes it pretty bad. Heck, even turbo charge crosspath is pretty good with red hot for strong bloons, and glaives for clumps. They really cleaned it up with Red hot's layer damage, but maybe dial back the crazy with red-hot MOAR?

    3: DART: Dart monkey is the face of crosspathing. Need pierce? get it. Need attack speed? get it. Need range? shut up, you already chose brawn over brains. Range is pretty good with camo, attack speed is good if you want to boosted attack speed, and pierce if you want more bloon control. it's just bad, because the crossbow only benefits well from the faster attacking, making it a fixed path upgrade. Otherwise, great teacher of crosspathing.

    2: BOAT: The top path is quite powerful, but the second and third path add detection & power for each immune bloon type, with grapes being more powerful than camo detection, because lead is only 1 layer, and camo is an entire bloon type that can't even be hit accidentally without it. Bonus points to hot shots for being unaffectual to Purple bloons, giving it a risk/reward element, unlike debuff upgrades like cryo cannon.

    1: SNIPER: I love how well this does. No longer do you have a slow attacking bringer of multilayer poppage, this time you have to choose your camo detection & what you want with it, or choose a more heavy, blind approach. Even better with radar scanner, because then it becomes the same choices for BTD 5, which was already good This extends to 3rd tier in all cases. The dumb sniper, classic auto, deadly rounds, deadly quick, ricochet power, or ricochet galore. Granted the weakest is Deadly rounds, since that only comes with camo & harmful shrapnel for any deadly precision snipers, but all in all, great potential.
    Favorite Tower: SPIKE FACTORY!


    • #3
      I posted a whole slew of suggestions about Spike Factory, including a few with crosspathing in mind, primarily with bottom path:
      I may as well provide my 2 cents about each type mentioned thus far though.

      Dart - Agreed. T3+ (catapults) could choose between faster rate of fire or better range, M3+ (dart shower) could hit more targets or from further, and B3+ (crossbows) could fire faster or with better pierce. There's no objectively best OR worst crosspath, although B3+/T2 or M3+/B2 respectively could push it, but even then, M3+/B2 could position with maximized distance between first and last locations for attacking against MOABs, and B3+/M2 may function better for singleton Camos. It should also be noted that T3+ and B3+ both lock the involved Dart Monkey out of being transformed by Super/Plasma Monkey Fan Club usage if you want to plan for that. Overall, as you said, Dart is handled quite nicely.

      Boomer - I could see T4 get a minor speed nerf, but if anything, given that Boomer's Camo detection is difficult to get (locked exclusively to T5), I think M2 at least should have its speed buff be better. It's not going to tear MOABs to ribbons anyway; you'd need primary path upgrades for that much. Otherwise, once again solid crosspathing balance that makes use of basic damage options. I would have complained about B2 if it didn't add layer damage, but NK avoided that so we're left with my overall praise.

      Cannon - I think the real problem is that Cannon's middle path in general could have better attack rate boosts. M2 is particularly guilty because it's mostly a glorified velocity boost, but the M3+ upgrades don't get any attack rate boosts that the crosspath benefits could capitalize upon either. B2 also could use a minor range boost if M2 is going to get that.

      Glue - I'm not sure what to say about Glue in general, but I can point out that T5/M2 still gets M2's added Pierce, even if it's subject to law of diminishing. I'm more interested to hear what you'd have to say about T5/B2. As for M2/B4, again that gets M2's added Pierce, although I will grant that it doesn't deal damage. I could see the higher tiers of the Middle and Bottom paths, not just Super Glue, deal VERY slow damage on their own to fix this.

      Sniper - yep, NK actually does get this guy right. Best part is, M4 and B4 do get Lead protection and T1 still adds layer damage.

      Boat - if I had to do one fix to bote's crosspathing, it would be B2 providing a +10% range boost.'s a lookout point. It can be used to spot enemies on the horizon. As for game balance, you might have noticed that tier 2s that only add viable hit targets bug me. Metal Freeze and White Hot Spikes get to me more than any of the hit-Camo tier 2s that don't do anything else, but in general, there are surely enough points in the game where these blatant lock-and-key upgrades are just money sinks.

      Mage - I feel higher tier Mage benefits by underwhelming amounts from getting crosspathed upgrades. T2 isn't contributing to M1+ or B3+'s notable attacks; M2's added attacks are too non-variable in effectiveness; and B2 of course just adds Camo detection. The only real benefit from crosspathing for a tier 5 is T5/B1 getting added Pierce for the repeatedly used basic attack. Here are my suggestions to reduce the bias:
      -T2: damage added applies for all available attacks other than Shimmer and Fire Breath
      -T3+: faster attack rates for M1/M2 attacks, but not by as high a percentage as with the basic attack
      -B2: +10% range boost (again)
      -B4+: M1/M2 attacks deal +2 layer damage per hit
      You could even attribute these ideas to more advanced Mages being creative, adaptable, and overall adept with what they get to sling spells at a higher frequency or with more power. It would add more interesting gameplay to the Mage, rather than have them stuck with money sink bloat.

      Ninja - I think what would help better would be a +10% range increase for M2(+), similar to what I suggested with Boat and Mage. Unlike Mortar and Sub, Ninja already detects Camo naturally, at the cost of needing B3+ to damage Leads without using MIB or some such, so Grandmaster Ninja still isn't going to do anything against Camo Leads on his own--and if he has MIB, his compatriots will be under Radar Scanner, making decamo practically useless anyway.


      Oh, and by the way, I want to add a tower to the list:

      Ace - I think the first 2 upgrades on bottom path should be swapped. Centered Path, of course, is a guaranteed money sink for T3+ or especially M3+ Ace, and especially has the issue that it just adds a situational option. Even as a tier 1, Centered Path would still require using up a path choice, but at least it would be obtained along the way to another upgrade, and Sharper Darts isn't exactly useless. As for M2 (Spy Plane), I would say have the plane shift location faster, and also have T5/M2 get to decamo on hit. A faster moving plane would be getting close to key locations within the flight path more often and thus dealing more damage. Spy Spectre would get a subtle buff--nothing ridiculous but it would add close range incentive against spaced Ceramics, and reason to put the Spectre's landing strip line somewhere not out of way of other towers would help make it more interesting. As for the T5/M2 decamo idea? Well, we already have 2 tier 3 upgrades and a tier 2 upgrade cause decamo on damage/hit; a tier 5 under crosspathing wouldn't hurt and this one would make sense with the plane pilot being able to handle air-based scouting.


      So that's my 2 cents right now.


      • #4
        I think that sub crosspathing is very well done, especially compared to how broken sub was in BTD5 (it’s still a bit broken in this game but shhh). Now instead of getting an all purpose tower that can kill everything across the map, you have to decide if you want the cross-map popping power at the cost of a slower firing sub or a sub without lead popping power. If you want both firing speed and lead popping power you give up cross map range and situational camo detection, so sub placement is actually important now as you can have the sub from BTD5 but only within the subs original range.

        I have a big issue with how with the Super Monkey it’s practically MANDATORY to have top path in order to kill any Bloons. Middle path is not even close to being as useful as bottom path, so robo monkey never gets used anymore as camo detection isn’t included it would be nice if the other paths got some more popping power earlier in their upgrades, instead of having to wait until tier 3 to get anything significant. I feel this is an issue shared a bit with the sniper monkey as well, as middle and bottom path together is just a really fast shooting dart monkey in essence, when you can have extreme popping power with top path bottom path.


        • #5
          Gonna revive this cuz i edited the main post since stuff changed. I wanted to complain about spactory more, but i think it requires it's own thread
          Favorite Tower: SPIKE FACTORY!