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Suggested Balance Changes to Strengthen Other Tower Combinations

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  • Suggested Balance Changes to Strengthen Other Tower Combinations

    I think these changes are needed to make some combinations of tower upgrades (Or tower paths in general) a bit more favorable. Tell me what you think below and/or post what you think could use a change!

    Boomerang Thrower: I think Red Hot Rangs should melt through 2 layers and have Kylie Boomerang do 3 layers of damage. The 2 layers to the RHRs would make it a more favorable upgrade for X/0/2 and 0/X/2 Boomerangs as double damage is a stronger incentive than just Lead popping power (Especially since other towers might already pop the leads before they are an issue). This especially helps Bionic Boomer since it wouldn't lose out on so much popping power just for range and lead damage.

    Monkey Ace: I think all the Bomber Ace needs to be more desirable is to have the Ace target the path in front of the bloons with its bombs and to have the bombs inflict napalm damage. This ensures that it will actually gain some pops, and that the random explosions won't cause a regrow farm/too many leaks.

    Spike Factory: Spiked Mines is too weak and expensive. I think it should be able to pop 20 bloons each before exploding (Since a single mine can't even defeat a Zebra bloon), and the resulting fire damage should pop twice per second since the residual damage would usually happen pretty close to the exit. Also, I think Spiked Mines should have its default price lowered to $9000-$10000 since other similarly priced things seem to outclass this upgrade.

    This suggestion is the more controversial one, but Long Life Spikes should be the tier 2 upgrade and Directed Spikes should be the tier 1 upgrade, combined with the Long Range Spikes. Spikes lasting over to the next round is a much more enticing upgrade than just having extra targeting options since it doesn't make your Spactory shoot faster, or pop more bloons. Being able to have your Spiked Ball Factory or SHREDR spikes last an extra round would be an arguable option to go for over the Faster Production and Bigger Stacks, respectably. Thick Spikes (Functioning like how Deadly Spikes does now) would then become the tier 3 upgrade since it fits more in line with the other tier 3 upgrades, and the new Deadly Spikes upgrade would allow the spikes to last two extra rounds instead of one and pop three layers of bloons instead of two.

    *Also maybe Ring of Fire could cost $3500 instead of $4500
    Last edited by Zario777; 05-09-18, 08:19 AM.

  • #2
    Yeah, I feel like the Ring of Fire is outclassed by the other upgrades, especially when using a village. And alchemist with tier 5 extra tacks is insane.

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    • #3
      I agree with your suggestions

      The only reason the middle path of Monkey Aces is useful is the camo detection. The pineapples are too unreliable to pop leads and don't add a great deal to the pop counts.

      Bomber ace is nice, but it is really weak compared with the other Tier 3 upgrades. Also, x-4-x and x-5-x are incredibly weak, firing only a few flimsy darts every once in a while. They do next to no damage and the only real reason for their use is the activated ability, which is also quite weak and I've never found the need for as of yet.

      Here's my suggestion: Bomber Ace still drops bombs on the track, and each dart is replaced with bombs that explode on impact. This will increase the pop count and also justify a higher cost than the current $600 or so. The additional upgrades at Tier 4 and 5 can upgrade these bombs too.

      Spiked mines is also way too weak. In BTD5 they were just so good, and now they're not the best...
      Test your knowledge with the !

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Zeni View Post
        I agree with your suggestions

        The only reason the middle path of Monkey Aces is useful is the camo detection. The pineapples are too unreliable to pop leads and don't add a great deal to the pop counts.

        Bomber ace is nice, but it is really weak compared with the other Tier 3 upgrades. Also, x-4-x and x-5-x are incredibly weak, firing only a few flimsy darts every once in a while. They do next to no damage and the only real reason for their use is the activated ability, which is also quite weak and I've never found the need for as of yet.

        Here's my suggestion: Bomber Ace still drops bombs on the track, and each dart is replaced with bombs that explode on impact. This will increase the pop count and also justify a higher cost than the current $600 or so. The additional upgrades at Tier 4 and 5 can upgrade these bombs too.

        Spiked mines is also way too weak. In BTD5 they were just so good, and now they're not the best...
        Exactly. Camo Detection and Ground Zero is all the middle path is good for and it doesn't have to be. I like your suggestion of the darts exploding at the end; it'd be like they have the Splodey Darts premium or something (To account for the Sharper Darts upgrade).

        And yeah. I can understand why it was nerfed from BTD5 to 6; they want you to use more towers instead of getting one super strong one and breezing through, but Spiked Mines isn't worth $14k after the nerfs. Which is why I suggested it get a price drop among a small buff.

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        • #5
          About Spike Factory's Perma Spike. I guess that everyone agrees that this tower is overpowered, so i sugest that they change the way it works.
          Unlike what the upgrade's name tells, the spikes are not permanent, they only have a lot of popping power. The change i propose is to make the spikes work just like wizard's wall of fire.
          First, the spikes become permanent to bloons (they will not despawn after a certain amount of pops, however they will still despawn after a given amount of time), any bloon that gets in contact with the spikes takes some damage(I guess 4 layers is a good number, and 8 if you have the Large Stacks upgrade).
          This way, this will still be a great upgrade by being able to pop unlimited amount of bloons, but will have some trouble popping moab class bloons.

          Also, about the #/4/# Banana Farm upgrade, there should have button to insta-pay your loan if you have the money.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zario777 View Post
            I think these changes are needed to make some combinations of tower upgrades (Or tower paths in general) a bit more favorable. Tell me what you think below and/or post what you think could use a change!

            Boomerang Thrower: I think Red Hot Rangs should melt through 2 layers and have Kylie Boomerang do 3 layers of damage. The 2 layers to the RHRs would make it a more favorable upgrade for X/0/2 and 0/X/2 Boomerangs as double damage is a stronger incentive than just Lead popping power (Especially since other towers might already pop the leads before they are an issue). This especially helps Bionic Boomer since it wouldn't lose out on so much popping power just for range and lead damage.

            Monkey Ace: I think all the Bomber Ace needs to be more desirable is to have the Ace target the path in front of the bloons with its bombs and to have the bombs inflict napalm damage. This ensures that it will actually gain some pops, and that the random explosions won't cause a regrow farm/too many leaks.

            Spike Factory: Spiked Mines is too weak and expensive. I think it should be able to pop 20 bloons each before exploding (Since a single mine can't even defeat a Zebra bloon), and the resulting fire damage should pop twice per second since the residual damage would usually happen pretty close to the exit. Also, I think Spiked Mines should have its default price lowered to $9000-$10000 since other similarly priced things seem to outclass this upgrade.

            This suggestion is the more controversial one, but Long Life Spikes should be the tier 2 upgrade and Directed Spikes should be the tier 1 upgrade, combined with the Long Range Spikes. Spikes lasting over to the next round is a much more enticing upgrade than just having extra targeting options since it doesn't make your Spactory shoot faster, or pop more bloons. Being able to have your Spiked Ball Factory or SHREDR spikes last an extra round would be an arguable option to go for over the Faster Production and Bigger Stacks, respectably. Thick Spikes (Functioning like how Deadly Spikes does now) would then become the tier 3 upgrade since it fits more in line with the other tier 3 upgrades, and the new Deadly Spikes upgrade would allow the spikes to last two extra rounds instead of one and pop three layers of bloons instead of two.

            *Also maybe Ring of Fire could cost $3500 instead of $4500
            The idea with the Boomerang sounds useful. And I agree somewhat to the intention of making path loss a little less of a problem. I kind of agree to the Kylie buff too because it isn't too useful for the $1400 you currently have to spend, but I am a little worried about the price of the Red Hot Rangs if this change were to happen. It would make Red Hot Rangs cost more like $200-400 then or even more, but I suppose it ain't too much a big deal if we're aiming to balance out the fairness of split paths. And I agree that Tier-2 specialize with Tier-3 crosspath is useless for the Boomerang Thrower.

            For the Monkey Ace's Bomber Ace, I'd like it to deploy bombs on the map more often, at a faster rate than single Exploding Pineapples are deployed at. Perhaps double the speed of deployment as an Exploding Pineapple would be really worthy for the $500 we have to shell out to get this upgrade.

            For Spike Factory mines, the Spiked Mines should just make stronger and larger explosions. But I suppose I'd also agree on the stronger napalm too, though I think such napalm would need to be distinguishable from generic napalm (from Hot Shot and higher Gwendolin).

            For the Spike Factory Path 3, I think the change of Directed Spikes to Tier-1 with merging of Long Reach into Directed Spikes is a brilliant idea. In no way shape or form is Long Reach any useful for any given scenario, especially because most of us would never buy $150 just to make a Spike Factory shoot further. I also like the idea that Long Life Spikes should be a Tier-2 upgrade, because I don't want my spikes to come to waste when we come to the next round. And it makes better sense to be challenging stockpiling versus simply faster production. And Tier-3 and Tier-4 suggestions you made are superb; that transitions much better towards the super powerful Permaspike.

            And yes, the Ring of Fire in BTD6 sucks for the $4500 you have to spend for the upgrade alone. It doesn't even pop much. Either just drop the price to match the somewhat sucky popping power or buff the range and popping power to match the $4500 you'd be paying for, but I would rather the latter because who doesn't want powerful Tier-4s?
            If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

            Comment


            • #7
              You got everything I was going for! All crosspathing options should be viable.

              For the Spiked Mines super-Napalm, it could be white-hot flames. But yeah it definitely needs some sort of boost.

              Originally posted by qwertyxp2000 View Post

              And yes, the Ring of Fire in BTD6 sucks for the $4500 you have to spend for the upgrade alone. It doesn't even pop much. Either just drop the price to match the somewhat sucky popping power or buff the range and popping power to match the $4500 you'd be paying for, but I would rather the latter because who doesn't want powerful Tier-4s?
              Yeah I agree with that. Tier 4s should be worthwhile. I was mainly going for the price drop since I rarely use Ring of Fire in BTD6, but I do remember a time in BTD 5 where I believe it operated similarly and they increased its price to $3500, before reverting it back to its quick-burst style and $2500. But nonetheless it needs something!

              I'm glad you agree with my Long Life Spikes Tier-2 idea; I felt like it was too "out-there" for people's tastes

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              • #8
                Currently, the bomber ace can only drop 4 bombs at a time. I think the upgrade would be much more balanced and strategic if it dropped bombs at a slower rate but constantly whenever in range of the track. This would make it just as weak in most circumstances but very powerful if placed correctly and with proper planning. Maps like Off the Coast and Four Circles would be dominated by bomber ace while maps like End of the Road would be horrible for it.

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                • #9
                  That wouldn't be a bad idea

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