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  • What's your favorite hero?

    What's your favorite hero?

    In my opinion, heroes are towers that need to be used for as long as possible in a game, so that they can upgrade faster. Therefore, it is convenient if the hero is cheap enough to be afforded on the first round. That automatically rules out Gwendolin, since she costs $900, which is not enough to afford, even with monkey knowledge. Obyn Greenfoot is the only one that can be afforded without monkey knowledge, so he gets a head start right there. Striker Jones is pretty useless without bomb shooters, making him much more expensive to get use out of. So he's out of the picture. That leaves Quincy and Obyn. Obyn cannot defend round 4 alone on his base. This wouldn't be a problem, but on hard mode, you start in round 3, not allowing enough time for Obyn to upgrade enough to be able to beat the round. This makes Obyn insufficient as a first tower in hard mode, greatly reducing the XP he can collect. Quincy, however, is sufficient, but you will need monkey knowledge to afford him on the first round. Obyn can see through obstacles, something Quincy cannot do. However, most obstacles are rather large and are not placed in a way that this feature would be useful. Most of the time the increased range isn't on the track, so it can't be used anyway. Obyn has brambles and wall of trees, one of which is the most similar to bloon trap (on the engineer) in the game. I quite liked bloon trap, but Wall of trees is not automatic, decreasing its usefulness in comparison to bloon trap. Brambles go away too fast and can't pop lead, making them not a good alternative to hot spikes, or a spike machine. Quincy has rapid shot and storm of arrows. Rapid shot depends heavily on the placement of the tower, while a storm of arrows can be used anywhere on the screen. A storm of arrows can heavily decrease the lethality of round 76, and rapid shot can easily get you out of a pinch. Obyn cannot sense camo without an external tower, but he can pop lead with his base attack. Quincy is able to sense camo on level 5, and pop lead on level 7. However, you will have to spend a little bit of money in order to allow Quincy to pop the first leads, as he cannot gain XP fast enough for that round. Arrows for Quincy can jump to other bloons on the screen, while Obyn's base can seek onto bloons. In my opinion, the seeking arrows are better. Obyn can act as a monkey village to magic monkeys, something Quincy cannot do to any tower. Nature totem in not very effective in my experience. Lastly, Quincy can do extra damage to MOAB classes, while Obyn does nothing like that.

    All things considered, I believe the best hero is...
    Quincy!
    22
    Quincy
    45.45%
    10
    Gwendolin
    36.36%
    8
    Striker Jones
    0%
    0
    Obyn Greenfoot
    18.18%
    4
    I needed a new signature and profile picture because the bloonchipper is not in the game anymore. The new tower:

    It’s a corrosive glue gunning layer stripping road spiking buff giving MOAB exploding transforming bloon shrinking tower dependent fairly cheap banana farm. It's... The Alchemist!

    RIP Bloonchipper. You were a good tower

  • #2
    You say "All things considered" but you wrote off Gwen for the single reason that you can't start with her. Even if you place her on round 25, she'll still level up fast enough.

    Gwen's base attack is the most powerful of all heroes. Her level 3 ability kills everything that runs over it, up to a rainbow - enough to kill those annoying camo bloons on 37 and 42. At level 6, her burn effect can melt through the 20s and 30s - sometimes you can make it to 40 with Gwen and a couple dart monkeys, allowing you to get those farms.

    Using her abilites on all 3 round 63 rushes make the hardest midgame round easy. Same for 76/78.

    Lategame, she's still relevant. At level 20, she can take down a BFB or a group of MOABs by herself - much more than any other hero can do at that point. She buffs towers in range with +1 layer. She gives towers lead (and DDT!) popping ability. Firestorm does over 200 damage to the entire screen.

    Quincy is the best starting hero - but he gets weaker and weaker the farther you go. By the 60s, he's not helping much and he's irrelevant past 80.

    Comment


    • #3
      Gwen is superior in almost every way possible. Her base attack alone at lv 20 with the support of a 4-0-2 alchemist and monkey village drums does massive damage compared to the other hero’s and has a +12 pierce while under the alchemist buff. She can also pop any bloon type including purple once she levels up. Camo is her weakness but her abilities can still hit the camo’s if timed and used properly. Then you have her AOE burn (heat up) that can pop a good bit of bloons that are within range. Her flask is powerful with respectable duration and cooldown and her firestorm (especially her lv 20 firestorm) can hit everything on screen and make short work of bloons and deal a good bit of damage to MOAB’s. Oh and her base attacks add even more damage cause any bloons hit will have a burn over time applied increasing her damage even more! Just her as a solo hero can not be matched by the others. Quincy is the only one that can remotely come close to her popping power but even then falls short. Not to mention she is the BEST hero by far for buffing other monkeys (in most situations unless maybe if you spam a ton of bomb towers obviously Jones might be better but I haven’t actually ran test to confirm). Her heat up ability allows monkeys affected to pop lead bloons (and DTT’s) but also increases thier damage and pierce, yes I said pierce! Her heat up adds +2 pierce to ALL monkeys affected on top of letting them pop lead and increasing their damage. Yes Obyn increases magic monkeys pierce as well but only by +1.......I’m not sure exactly how much popping power Gwen’s heat up adds to the monkeys but for reference in my testing it almost double a 2-0-3 super monkeys damage output. I used Cubism map sandbox on easy and positioned the towers in the same spot each time and sent a fortified BAD out each time (I couldn’t do a regular BAD because a lv 20 gwen and a 2-0-3 super with alchemist support could kill it which didn’t allow for accurate data recording). Just to show you my testing numbers, a 2-0-3 super monkey solo has a +5 pierce and was able to do on average 16,150 damage to a single BAD on Cubism. The same super with 4-0-2 alchemist support was bumped up to +8 pierce and had a average of 26,300 pops on the BAD. Once again the same super with alchemist support and a lv 20 gwen has a +10 pierce and did 50,350 pops on average to a single BAD. And for reference if you throw a monkey village with drums into the mix it ups the 2-0-3 super to 58,400 pops on average and allowed a lv 20 gwen and the super with the alchemist support to actually kill a fortified BAD, how’s that for power!!! Again for reference a 2-0-3 super with the above alchemist and village upgrades, only swapping gwen for a lv 20 Obyn only did on average of 32,400 pops vs the 58,400 pops with using Gwen cause of her heat up ability and Gwen still gave +1 pierce more then Obyn to the super. In short she is a beast in every aspect compared to the other hero’s and even if you deploy her at round 30 she will reach lv 20 before the BAD. With monkey knowledge I can get her to level 20 in the mid/high 80’s without spending any money on her. The lower levels make almost zero impact on the hero’s level late game, once you reach higher levels that’s when the experience really starts to pile on. So for a small difference in price she is well worth it.
      I would like to add, A lv 20 Obyn with buffs mentioned above does have a +17 pierce vs Gwen’s +12 pierce and can hit bloons behind cover. Against a single BAD using above test Gwen did on average 21,400 pops and Obyn did on average 3,100 pops and against 17 BAD’s (5 more then gwen could actually hit) she did on average 264,800 pops and Obyn did on average 49,500 pops. During these tests no abilities where used, only the base attack. So even with only being able to hit 12 of the 17 BAD’s Gwen did superior damage and single target is no comparison, add her abilities into the mix and those numbers would increase even more! For those who want to know the other two hero’s I’ll tell you this in short. Jones can’t keep up with anyone in any scenario I tested. I mean he is just really bad... Quincy (lv 20) has pierce of +12 (same a Gwen) and against a single BAD with all above circumstances being equal only did 15,150 pops and vs 17 BAD’s he did 194,200 pops. Again no abilities where used, just base attacks. And to think Quincy is supposed to be a MOAB popping machine with his extra damage to MOAB class bloons....but still shadows in comparison to Gwen. Now I also did a fast test rushing fortified regen ceramics. Obyn and Jones ain’t even worth mentioning, Quincy with all above buffs and spamming abilities could hold off 600 of them before leaking! Very impressive indeed....but wait here comes gwen to make Quincy look bad once again. Gwen in the same situation could hold off a unlimited amount of fortified regen ceramics and I didn’t even have to use her firestorm.... and barely needed her flask ability. Without abilities Quincy couldn’t have held what he did and in fact he leaked only after blowing his cool downs and had to rely on his base attacks for damage. One last thing to mention. Yes Quincy can see camo’s but camo detection support is cheap and easy to get allowing Gwen to also see camo’s. Quincy while technically can pop all bloon types is limited to leads with only every 3rd attack being able to damage them but definitely holds the advantage for early level purples as Gwen needs expensive tower support in order to pop them solo or to be level 16 in order to pop them on her own but in all honesty you other towers can easily pop the purples for Gwen to attack so it's not a huge deal. But here’s the kicker, while not very important sense this only applies to round 90+ and by then you can afford a 0-3-0 village it’s still worth a mention. As of right now (7-10-18) Quincy can not damage DTT’s at all without village support. Even with a alchemist’s acidic mixture dip he can not hurt DDT’s. Not sure if that’s a bug but you would think that his explosive arrow (every 3rd shot) could at least damage them, same goes for when he’s under the affect of the alchemist acid dip. So as of right now he needs a 0-3-0 village to hurt DTT’s. Gwen does not suffer from this weakness and with (cheap) camo support she can damage every type of bloon. Quincy can definitely be more powerful then Gwen in the early game, SOLO. But factor in Gwen’s buffs she can provide as early as level 4 to other monkeys she once again has the clear advantage. Anyway I did not intend for this post to be this long. I just kinda got carried away. Also all test numbers where attained with same tower placements and monkey knowledge level 98. If you test these situations your numbers may vary due to knowledge and tower placements. Hope this helps someone out!
      Last edited by DD4LIFE; 10-07-18, 11:54 PM.

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      • #4
        Am I the only one who really likes Obyn... I mean Quincys good too but Obyn's projectiles can hit multiple enemies at a time even from far away.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Thedinosaurgeek714 View Post
          Am I the only one who really likes Obyn... I mean Quincys good too but Obyn's projectiles can hit multiple enemies at a time even from far away.
          Yeah but his overall popping power is horrible compared to Gwen, even compared Quincy it’s horrible but at least Obyn brings buffs to the table while Quincy doesn’t. Quincy’s arrows bounce so once the first one hits they do a good job of seeking the other bloons. With Gwen, if positioned correctly (like on a good straightaway or track overlap and set targeting to strong or last) you can insure her attacks hits the maximum amount of bloons, no different then what you do with super monkeys to utilize their peirce to maximize damage. As explained above, while under full buffs and max level Obyn does have +5 more pierce (17 total) compared to Gwen and Quincy’s +12 peirce but even with Obyn being able to hit 5 targets more his damage still can’t match that of Gwen and Quincy so they are able to destroy there first 12 targets and move on to the next 12, and the next 12, 12, 12 and then start on the 6th set of 12 targets all before Obyn can finish off his first batch of 17 which effectively allows them to hit 60+ bloons in the same amount of time it take Obyn to kill his first 17 (technically this apples to Gwen as Quincy would be somewhere in the middle of Obyn’s 17 and Gwen’s 60+ due to his popping power being less then Gwen’s, so mathematically Quincy would be around 48ish effective peirce which is still a ton more the Obyn). And while Obyn’s attacks is able to seek and pass through objects which can really help on certain tracks (like the cornfield one) and his slowing totems are nice it’s nothing that other regular towers can’t bring to the table, like the 3-0-2, 4-0-2 and 5-0-2 wizard that can seek bloons and pass through objects and the glue gunner/ice monkeys that can slow bloons,just to name a few. And sure his level 10 skill is a nice boost in income but again it’s nothing that several other monkeys can’t bring to the table (there are several monkeys that generate income). So in short every advantage Obyn brings to the table can be replicated by other monkeys and generally replicated better.

          But Gwen is so powerful compared to the other hero’s it’s ridicules. They need to buff the other 3 or nerf her. Personally I think her power level is reasonable for a “Hero” monkey and the other 3 Hero’s are severely lack luster and weak and need buffed to at least bring them up the Gwen’s level. Sure Quincy can somewhat compare to her damage but he brings zero buffs to the table so it causes him to dramatically fall behind in rank. He should be doing superior damage vs the other hero’s sense he doesn’t buff anyone. With Obyn, he’s not bad but just needs a huge boost in his base damage to at the very least match Gwen’s and I know I ain’t shown Jones much love but his damage is so horrible it’s not worth mentioning and he basically just buffs bomb towers so unless your going to go bomb tower crazy he doesn’t really bring anything to the table. I will say though, his ability that stuns the largest bloon is very nice and is on a short cooldown and does a very nice job at keeping the target in range of your other towers but once again you have tons of other towers that can’t do the same thing and better all while not taking your attention away from button spamming his ability so you can do other things. It kinda sucks that Gwen is far superior in almost every way compared to the other 3 hero’s and it kinda takes the choice away cause why use a much weaker hero when there is better available.
          Last edited by DD4LIFE; 11-07-18, 11:49 AM.

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          • #6
            I like obyn for the reason that you can get him from the first round, with thorns being able to sustain a few levels solo (even in chimps mode). After you can afford a ninja which handles most of the round up to round 30 or so (keep him 2/3-0-1). After that you can keep scaling super monkeys.

            I have yet to try the other heroes, but so far i've finished chimps mode for all the beginner levels with relative ease (first or second attempt). The levels are getting harder though with more obstacles, might need to revise strategy with more helis/aces/snipers to cover more of the map.

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            • #7
              Yeah I used to use him for that reason as well but there are much better strategies. One that I’ve been using is to spam a few 0-0-0 dart monkeys and save for Gwen and place her in the middle of the darts and then save for super monkey. At level 4 she gives the dart monkeys the heatup buff which increases their power by a lot even with them being 0-0-0 and it will automatically double the strength of your super. You can deal with the first few camo rounds with will timed flasks as well giving you chance to get camo detection as well. Using that strategy I did the first 11 tracks on the first try with chimps up until I reached Chutes which took a couple of times to get placements right. So far 14 tracks all one shotted minus the Chutes that took a few try’s using that strategy. Depending on the track I would do a 2-0-3 tack shooter instead of the dart monkey spam which works better if you have the proper bends and track coverage for the faster bloons to get hit by the shooter until you can get Gwen placed and set to strong to pop the fast bloons. As tracks started getting harder I actually don’t place a super anymore and go for 2-0-5 tack shooter by round 63 and then do the super. A single tack shooter, Gwen and a couple of 0-0-0 dart monkeys with alchemist support can hold there own until then. If there is good water placement I do a 3-2-0 buccaneer instead of a tack shooter and then tack shooter followed by super for late rounds. Supers just cost way to much to get them to the point of where they are worth it and sense I’ve been waiting till round 70 plus to place the supers it made thing easier especially as tracks get harder. That round 63 was giving me problems every time and cut it close one to many times when going super early on plus the round 40 Moab was cutting it close even with a super and Gwen’s heatup buff. No matter what tower you pick Gwen can double their power with heatup and you don’t have to invest in upgrade till later allowing you to focus on other more important things. Throw a alchemist into the mix with a village drums and even a 0-0-0 tower was equal to or stronger then there teir 3 counterparts in a lot of situations plus the village and alchemist buffs the other towers around them adding to over all popping power increase. There are so many strategies that open up to you and syncs extremely well together when you throw Gwen into the mix.

              Edit - I would like to point out about something I said earlier. While Gwen’s lv 4 heat up doesn’t actually increase the towers strength until she reaches lv 17, it does increase towers pierce by 2. Positioned correctly a tower that can only pierce 3 bloons like the 0-0-0 dart monkey can now hit up to 5 bloons per shot hence why I said it nearly doubles there power. It’s all based on the situation and position of towers and bloons. But done right it’s a massive increase.
              Last edited by DD4LIFE; 11-07-18, 02:05 PM.

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              • #8
                Obyn and Gwen are by far the most powerful heroes. Quincy is only a good starting hero, as you go further and further he gets less useful. Gwen is better in almost every way, the only benefit quincy has is camo detection. Gwen on the other hand puts out crazy damage and grouped popping power as well as has some utility to support other towers. Obyn of course is the only hero you can start with and he is without a doubt very powerful with his utility. He takes magic towers (already the strongest towers in the game) and buffs them to be much more powerful. Along with this he slows down bloons with the totem and his forest ability grants quite a lot of cash + a lot of popping power.

                Obyn can solo r4, just use his bush ability.
                (Type something here...............)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by naturespirit
                  Obyn and Gwen are by far the most powerful heroes. Quincy is only a good starting hero, as you go further and further he gets less useful. Gwen is better in almost every way, the only benefit quincy has is camo detection. Gwen on the other hand puts out crazy damage and grouped popping power as well as has some utility to support other towers. Obyn of course is the only hero you can start with and he is without a doubt very powerful with his utility. He takes magic towers (already the strongest towers in the game) and buffs them to be much more powerful. Along with this he slows down bloons with the totem and his forest ability grants quite a lot of cash + a lot of popping power.

                  Obyn can solo r4, just use his bush ability.
                  Not happening that early m80.
                  Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th - NK Day of the Dead, My TK reworking ideas
                  Originally posted by Junior Monkey;n138814
                  Formerly made Ninja Kiwi great again, I wish I still could.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Junior Monkey View Post
                    Not happening that early m80.
                    Monkey Knowledge makes your heroes start at level 3.
                    (Type something here...............)

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                    • #11
                      Lol very troublesome kid has to use monkey knowledge xd
                      I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

                      I forgot I have a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0...Fww_A1N9cIWF_g

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by naturespirit View Post
                        Obyn and Gwen are by far the most powerful heroes. Quincy is only a good starting hero, as you go further and further he gets less useful. Gwen is better in almost every way, the only benefit quincy has is camo detection. Gwen on the other hand puts out crazy damage and grouped popping power as well as has some utility to support other towers. Obyn of course is the only hero you can start with and he is without a doubt very powerful with his utility. He takes magic towers (already the strongest towers in the game) and buffs them to be much more powerful. Along with this he slows down bloons with the totem and his forest ability grants quite a lot of cash + a lot of popping power.

                        Obyn can solo r4, just use his bush ability.

                        “A lot of poppping power” Obyn has the weakest popping power of all hero’s......Jones is bad and Obyn has about half the popping power as him. I mean it’s absolutely horrible....

                        anyway Gwen buffs all monkeys peirce by +2 that’s within her range and Obyn only buffs magic monkeys peirce by +1. Plus at higher levels she also increasing monkeys popping power by 1 layer on top of that. And allows monkeys to pop lead and damage DDT’s. Obyn’s utility is weak compared to what Gwen brings to the table. Gwen’s level 3 skill is not limited to a set amount of pops like Obyn’s bush ability is and can pop a lot more bloons because due to that. And as I said above. Obyn doesn’t bring anything to the table that can not be provided better by Gwen or other towers. There are tons of towers that provide income and tons of towers that slow, stop or push back bloons. His totems have such a short range and half the time auto placed in horrible positions to where they are barely being utilized. And even when they reach lv 3 (at hero lv 15) they only slow 35% which is not that much especially considering the short range and random placement. A 2-0-4 glue gunner is not that expensive and can mess the bloons world up with large coverage, soaking all layers, lasting longer and can even glue new bloons that ain’t even in range of the gunner anymore cause it leaves the blob on the track once they get popped. Then upgrade it to teir 5 and you have a powerful stop on top of the already good slow. Plus it can cause damage to the bloons that are slowed, may not be much damage but it’s still damage. There is literally nothing Obyn brings to the table that other towers can’t do better and what Gwen can’t do better as mentioned in my posts above. Even his low starting cost is not a benefit cause you can take that money and have more poppong power with regular monkeys. There is literally nothing Obyn can do that’s special/unique to him that can’t be done and done better by something else. He is beyond horrible is all aspects. Cant even really use him on chimps mode cause he can barely hold his own, I’d take three 0-0-0 darts over him as a starting strategy on chimps any day. The only thing he would be better at is for people who don’t know how to properly place towers to use them to there fullest extent cause he basically performs the same with just being slapped down in the general location due to his attacks being about to seek, even if they miss they turn around and come back. But with proper tower placements, other towers even if they miss they can hit bloons behind them and they can utilize the thier full piercing power. Place Gwen in a bad spot and you cripple her severely, when strategy is involved Obyn becomes very obsolete compared to other options you have. And I don’t mean to insinuate you have no strategy, I just mean it’s hard to mess up with Obyn and extremely easy to cripple your game if gwen or other towers or not positioned properly.
                        Last edited by DD4LIFE; 11-07-18, 11:12 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Wow, nobody loves Striker Jones... It would make sense to me that he gets little respect because of his high price for low power, but he's still pretty fun to use.

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                          • #14
                            DD4LIFE I’m seriously wondering if you even read what I typed. Anyway, first of all I said obyn’s wall of trees has a lot of popping power. I did not say obyn himself with his natural attack does. 35% is a really powerful stall especially when it affects moab class and is free. That’s almost as strong as sabotage supply lines. Although I can understand it doesn’t make a big deal to non-moab class.

                            Where does Gwen buff pierce for towers? I’ve tested a max gwen and the only utility I can see her granting is +1 damage and fire damage.

                            Personally I do not know where you came up with the logic you have to more strategically place gwen than obyn. I’m not saying placement isn’t important with gwen, but let’s use a little common sense here. Gwen has far more range than obyn and actually pops stuff really powerfully. Obyn on the other hand has a much smaller range and is primarily utility-based, this makes his placement far more important.

                            Gwen’s only utility use really is to help pop DDTs. Popping leads can easily be handeled by other towers including Obyn as a hero and the alchemist makes gwen’s utility not help that much for the most part, again it’s mainly for DDTs. Considering Obyn doubles the power of Druids and 0-0-0 supers, I think it’s safe to say he has powerful utility.

                            Again I’m not saying gwen is a bad hero or that placement isn’t important. I think both heroes are equally good, but it’s ridiculous to say gwen has better utility or that gwen’s placement is more important than obyn’s.
                            (Type something here...............)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GREATEST101 View Post
                              Wow, nobody loves Striker Jones... It would make sense to me that he gets little respect because of his high price for low power, but he's still pretty fun to use.
                              It’s because he’s only good with bomb unlike the other heroes which are good with a more variety of towers if Jones could buff all explosive towers or military monkeys he’d be a lot better.
                              I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

                              I forgot I have a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0...Fww_A1N9cIWF_g

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