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  • Buff Farms?

    I don't think farms should be op or anything, but they're almost useless in BTD6 right now and the weird thing is, the more you upgrade it, the less efficient it gets. In fact, a 1-0-0 farm is the most efficient as it takes the least amount of rounds to pay off ($1725/$120 = 14.375 rounds). Now let's compare a 2-0-0 farm. (I'm going to use medium costs for all of these). $2325/$160 = 14.53 rounds.

    This is ridiculous. It gets even worse the more you upgrade. 3-0-0 ($5725/$320 = 17.89). I'm just going to stop here, you guys get the idea. It's just not efficient at all. I don't think that spamming 1-0-0 farms should be more efficient than every single farm upgrade. Anyway please buff the upgrades of farm. Thanks.
    (Type something here...............)

  • #2
    In BTD5, farms were OP. 4/2 farms were broken - if you can build one, you WILL NOT lose. I think NK's goal was to weaken high-level farms to prevent this...

    I don't like the fact that 1-0-0 is the most efficient - the optimal strategy should NOT be to spam the entire screen with farms. I think the idea behind it was to limit the "runaway" farming BTD5 has, where the higher-upgraded farms allow you to grow already-fast income to crazy levels.

    My suggestion would be to rebalance farms to make them stronger at higher levels, but implement some form of diminishing return for spamming farms - something like 5-10% less income for each farm placed. That way farms will be useful, but not broken.

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    • #3
      Higher upgrades already have the upside of saving space, why should they also be more efficient than the lower upgrades? The lower upgrades need the efficiency for the balance.

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      • #4
        Rip very troublesome kid can’t spam facs to go #epiclategaem ((((

        you’re acting like btd5 farms didn’t take 10 rounds to pay themselves off...

        and farms will will always be good simply because. In the meantime bow down to the 1/0/0 farm for it has long been ridiculed for its inefficiency.


        Originally posted by ChezeNator View Post
        Higher upgrades already have the upside of saving space, why should they also be more efficient than the lower upgrades? The lower upgrades need the efficiency for the balance.
        It’s called an UPgrade not a trade-off grade
        I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

        I forgot I have a Youtube channel:

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BTD Battles Scrub View Post
          Rip very troublesome kid can’t spam facs to go #epiclategaem ((((

          you’re acting like btd5 farms didn’t take 10 rounds to pay themselves off...

          and farms will will always be good simply because. In the meantime bow down to the 1/0/0 farm for it has long been ridiculed for its inefficiency.




          It’s called an UPgrade not a trade-off grade
          Last time I checked farms in btd6 take way longer than 10 rounds to pay off.
          (Type something here...............)

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          • #6
            To preface this post, I'd like to point out that I don't actually have BTD6 so I'm unable to experiment myself. These thoughts come purely from my BTD5 and battles experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

            Previously, (with the exception of the banana republic) more expensive, higher tier farms were more efficient than lower farm tiers. This idea was not inherently imbalanced; yes, the 4/2 farm was obscenely efficient, perhaps too much so, but the cost of saving up the requisite $14000 just for the 4/x upgrade from republic rather than investing it in lower tier farms and/or defense required an enormous opportunity investment that was a potentially risky endeavor that could put a player at a significant economic disadvantage should they fail to achieve this. The increase in efficiency is a reward for having the skill to build up farms and defense to the point where one could afford to accumulate that kind of money and not spend it on an improved defense. At least in the context of battles, this is why getting the 4/0 or 4/2 farm is a high-risk high-reward endeavor, if successfully pulled off, one achieves an enormous milestone in the development of their economy, but if unsuccessful, it can lead to being forced to sell the said farm, likely putting the player at an economic disadvantage, or death.

            Making the equivalent of the 4/0 and 4/2 farm in BTD6 less efficient than its lower upgrade counterparts means that getting one is a high-risk, low-reward accomplishment, meaning that it is only useful in cases where there is literally no real-estate available on the map. Instead of rewarding players for having the requisite skill to manage their farms and income to the point where they can afford to drop $20k+ on an expensive farm upgrade rather than invest in defense or lower level farms, it instead punishes them by not paying off that money for over 15 rounds, longer than for lower tier farms. From the numbers I've seen, banks in BTD6 appear to be the optimal way to go. I actually agree that banks should be more efficient than their banana-generating counterparts for the reason that banks do not provide constant income every round, they provide a lump sum 11+ rounds after they are purchased, meaning that there is no immediate return on investment that can be invested. Obviously, this is a high-risk venture, even higher than that of the 4/2 farm in BTD5, meaning that the reward should be proportionally greater. I don't think it's too much of a problem that getting a 4/2 farm makes life significantly easier following buying the farm; if a player was able to demonstrate the requisite skill to manage their economy and defense to the point where they could drop the requisite money, they deserve the reward of an easier game following this accomplishment, how much easier is up to debate obviously but I believe they deserve some sort of tangible reward greater than they would for buying a lower tier farm because the risk and skill-level necessary was greater.

            Farming is a risk-reward system. The more risk you take, the more potential reward you should get provided that the risk you take does not cause you to die or sell farms; this was a system that was implemented very effectively in BTD5. Perhaps the reward was too great in proportion to the risk; the precise ratio is something that something that there are a number of different valid arguments for. However, I don't think it's good for the sake of balance when there are certain farm upgrades (including the exclusive fifth tier upgrades) which involve a far greater amount of risk to acquire and produce less reward than the less risky lower tier upgrades. Low tier farm upgrades by their very nature are low risk; they are spammable and cheap, meaning that the opportunity cost to the defense of investing in them is low, and if one is a couple hundred dollars short of defending a certain round, one can easily sell a lower tier farm at a low cost to overall economy to build the necessary defense. The cost of a mistimed upgrade to a higher tier farm can be massive, both in the loss of money from the sell price and in the loss of potential economic benefit from investing that money in more lower tier farms. And if you have the requisite skill to successfully save over 100k for a 5/2/0 farm and not spend that money on defense, you deserve a better reward than you would get from lower tier farms, or at least something that doesn't require 20+ whole rounds to pay off.

            Just to reiterate: I don't mind the fact that banks are the most efficient farming method; in fact, that is how it should be given the increased risk involved with the purchase of a bank. I believe that the beauty of farming was that it was a risk-reward system; the more risk you took, the more reward you got out of the system if you were able to successfully take the risk, and the bigger the consequences were if that risk was ultimately a poorly executed decision. Making the BRF equivalent in BTD6 less efficient than lower tier farms damages the risk-reward dynamic of farms, making it an unviable upgrade until all space is taken up already, and encouraging players to engage in the lower-risk activity of spamming lower tier farms, reducing the amount of reward for skill in the game. I get that banks exists, and encouraging them increases the amount of skill and improves the risk-reward balance. However, having the BRF equivalent be more efficient than its lower tier counterparts (but less efficient than banks) would not ruin this dynamic; it would improve it, giving players more options that balance out risk with reward.

            This effect is not really seen to the same extent on easy maps, where it is relatively easy to gain the requisite amount of cash and spam high tier farms. However, this is far more evident on harder maps, in which is extraordinarily difficult to save up the requisite $15k+ and not spend it on economy and defense, where the skill level necessary to execute such a risk successfully deserves a proportionally higher reward than currently exists in the game.
            I normally don't post runthroughs of DCs unless I feel like they're particularly difficult. However, if you need a runthrough, shoot me a PM and I'll do my best to get one up.

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            • #7
              I'm just getting used to the game, and upgrades, so I'm not a pro just yet (even though in the BTD 5 I was a farmer). And I barely have enough cash to upgrade farm to a tier 3. Tier 4 I got just once, and very late in the game (round 60++), so I agree that BTD 6 farms are kinda harder to use in this game. I think it would be nice if they would pay off much sooner.

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              • #8
                I agree they need a buff, maybe 30 instead of 20 from the start

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                • #9
                  TSP covered it perfectly.
                  (Type something here...............)

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                  • #10
                    I just tried Monkey Banks. They're slow as Hell. And it appears they're capped at 10k cash. The only good thing about them is that if we have multiple Monkey Banks, we can collect cash from all of them at once.

                    So I think the Banks should see some love too.

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                    • #11
                      Nemomon I tried banks as well just now and they are way way faster than regular farms. They yield far more cash, I don't think they need a buff. The other farm upgrades do need a buff though imo.
                      (Type something here...............)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by naturespirit View Post
                        Nemomon I tried banks as well just now and they are way way faster than regular farms. They yield far more cash, I don't think they need a buff. The other farm upgrades do need a buff though imo.
                        At the very least the cap should be higher. I don't have its next upgrade, so I don't know if it changes anything, but from the description it doesn't read that it increases it.

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                        • #13
                          There have been some fantastic points made already. The only thing I’ll add, is if you are going to put in OP and crazy expensive towers (tier 5 and some tier 4), then obtaining the money required should not be a fairy tale. The only time I’ve been able to get the Temply or Dark Champion is after I have beaten round 80. Same goes for some other necessary towers for the higher levels.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ludlow View Post
                            There have been some fantastic points made already. The only thing I’ll add, is if you are going to put in OP and crazy expensive towers (tier 5 and some tier 4), then obtaining the money required should not be a fairy tale. The only time I’ve been able to get the Temply or Dark Champion is after I have beaten round 80. Same goes for some other necessary towers for the higher levels.
                            You can afford them pretty easily if you spam 2-3-0 farms trust me.
                            (Type something here...............)

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                            • #15
                              I'd like to know all the prices of every upgrade and their monetary income value before I analyze what could be buffed.

                              But what I do know is that the Tier-5 Path 1 upgrade is trashly rip-off for $120,000 for the upgrade alone that only earns a petty amount of cash per round. Combine with the other rip-off upgrades and you'll get a a much more trashy Tier-5 upgrade.
                              If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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