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  • Balance change ideas

    A few of the worst towers in the game right now is the glue gunner, spike factory, village, and bloonchipper. And I was thinking if there was any way to buff these towers. So here are my suggestions.

    Bloonchipper 4-0: 0-3 village allows the chipper to suck ZOMG's (Suggestion by somebody in ailensrock50's discord)

    Glue gunner (All upgrades): 0-3 village allows glue gunner to effect moabs (Glue slows moabs but by half the speed of what it would do to bloons. Also deals the same amount of damage as if it did to a bloon)

    Glue gunner 0-3: Price reduced from 2200 to 1800

    Spike factory (All upgrades): Spike piles last longer

    (Also spike factory 0-1 and 0-2 upgrades should be cheaper but I forgot how much they cost)

    Now if these balance changes were to be implemented, how would you use glue/chipper and village into a strategy? Bloon eco isn't as efficent as farms and you can't just go chipper/glue village farm. Well you can use the engineer. The bloon traps on engineer + bloon eco can get you somewhat equal, if not more money than a farm player. Now the guy in tyler's discord suggested to half the chippers damage to ZOMG's but I thought this was good enough. Please give feedback and constructive criticism.

  • #2
    The 4-x Bloonchipper idea sound great! It would still be really expensive to get a 0-3 Village and the 4-x Bloonchipper, which is very balanced for what nice effects it does. It will hopefully bring both Bloonchipper and Village to be great towers again. To my honest opinion, that would be a lot more balanced, and even better than straight on bringing back ZOMG-popping power of Bloonchipper.

    I have several suggestions about the Glue Gunner of my own. I suggest decreasing its lower-tier upgrades and the base tower to a lower price. $240 for base tower, $150 for Glue Soak, $250 for Corrosive Glue, $100 for Stickier Glue, $800 for Glue Splatter, and $3000 for Bloon Dissolver. At the moment, it is way to expensive to go solo on any type of round, not even simple Round 2 rushes. It cannot soak all mass Grouped Reds in time, and for $1790 it still gets overrun against Grouped Reds. Compare the 2-2 Glue Gunner to alternatives for early grouped popping power such as a 1-2 Mortar ($1700), 3-0 Bomb ($1850), 3-0 Boomer ($2155), 1-3 Boomer ($2175) 0-2 Sub ($1800), 2-1 Wizard ($2150), 3-1 Ninja ($2000), etc. Some of these alternatives can easily replace a 2-2 Glue in reliability, especially when the Round 4-7 rushes is the time where Spaced Pinks and Spaced Blacks may be sent. Glue is terrible against Spaced Pinks, while it may also tend to be too slow against Spaced Blacks. So decreasing all these costs will bring the costs to $1540, which will be a lot less of a hassle of when it comes to earlier-game, so that it makes it just as good a starting tower to pair up with Farms or Bloon Sends. It should make it a much better choice as a first tower, even if it gets overrun by mass Grouped Reds early-game. I tested on Battle River and a 2-2 Glue Gunner does still get overrun by mass Grouped Reds.

    As for Bloon Dissolver, it is still really expensive to be an effective tower against very large amounts of Regrow Rainbows. A 3-2 alongside a basic defense would probably not stand a good chance against Round 13-14 rushes unless the Regrow Rainbow or Regrow Zebra rush is less than $4000. Making Bloon Dissolver $3000 would make it a better dilemma choice against Glue Hose, whether to dissolve few bloons to lower the number of bloons to pop or to glue all bloons to ease the defense.

    As for Glue Hose, I'd keep the current price at the moment, because in my opinion, early-game is a major weakness for the Glue Gunner. And plus, once Glue Hose is bought, it does pretty good against normal bloons in the mid-game, alongside a basic defense.

    And for the Spike Factories. The Spike Factory upgrades still do need decrease in price. It is at the moment $600 for the base tower, $550 for the Bigger Stacks, $600 for Faster Production and $900 for the Even Faster Production. Based on "Worst player ever"'s suggestion, I say $500 for the Faster Production and $750 for the Even Faster Production. And yes, lifespan of spike piles would be great too, although this would allow more lag to both players' screens if many Spike Factories were placed. Either we add 10-25% more lifespan to the spike piles or we should make the spikes have double the number of spikes to compensate low lifespan of spike piles (just as BTD Battles Flash did to compensate slow production speed).
    Last edited by qwertyxp2000; 19-12-17, 08:57 AM.
    If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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    • #3
      The only upgrade I would say for the Glue Gunner that should affect MOAB-class is the Glue Striker's ability. Perhaps a 20% slow for the entire duration of the ability would do good. I presume though that the duration is 5 seconds.
      If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by qwertyxp2000 View Post
        The 4-x Bloonchipper idea sound great! It would still be really expensive to get a 0-3 Village and the 4-x Bloonchipper, which is very balanced for what nice effects it does. It will hopefully bring both Bloonchipper and Village to be great towers again. To my honest opinion, that would be a lot more balanced, and even better than straight on bringing back ZOMG-popping power of Bloonchipper.

        I have several suggestions about the Glue Gunner of my own. I suggest decreasing its lower-tier upgrades and the base tower to a lower price. $240 for base tower, $150 for Glue Soak, $250 for Corrosive Glue, $100 for Stickier Glue, $800 for Glue Splatter, and $3000 for Bloon Dissolver. At the moment, it is way to expensive to go solo on any type of round, not even simple Round 2 rushes. It cannot soak all mass Grouped Reds in time, and for $1790 it still gets overrun against Grouped Reds. Compare the 2-2 Glue Gunner to alternatives for early grouped popping power such as a 1-2 Mortar ($1700), 3-0 Bomb ($1850), 3-0 Boomer ($2155), 1-3 Boomer ($2175) 0-2 Sub ($1800), 2-1 Wizard ($2150), 3-1 Ninja ($2000), etc. Some of these alternatives can easily replace a 2-2 Glue in reliability, especially when the Round 4-7 rushes is the time where Spaced Pinks and Spaced Blacks may be sent. Glue is terrible against Spaced Pinks, while it may also tend to be too slow against Spaced Blacks. So decreasing all these costs will bring the costs to $1540, which will be a lot less of a hassle of when it comes to earlier-game, so that it makes it just as good a starting tower to pair up with Farms or Bloon Sends. It should make it a much better choice as a first tower, even if it gets overrun by mass Grouped Reds early-game. I tested on Battle River and a 2-2 Glue Gunner does still get overrun by mass Grouped Reds.

        As for Bloon Dissolver, it is still really expensive to be an effective tower against very large amounts of Regrow Rainbows. A 3-2 alongside a basic defense would probably not stand a good chance against Round 13-14 rushes unless the Regrow Rainbow or Regrow Zebra rush is less than $4000. Making Bloon Dissolver $3000 would make it a better dilemma choice against Glue Hose, whether to dissolve few bloons to lower the number of bloons to pop or to glue all bloons to ease the defense.

        As for Glue Hose, I'd keep the current price at the moment, because in my opinion, early-game is a major weakness for the Glue Gunner. And plus, once Glue Hose is bought, it does pretty good against normal bloons in the mid-game, alongside a basic defense.

        And for the Spike Factories. The Spike Factory upgrades still do need decrease in price. It is at the moment $600 for the base tower, $550 for the Bigger Stacks, $600 for Faster Production and $900 for the Even Faster Production. Based on "Worst player ever"'s suggestion, I say $500 for the Faster Production and $750 for the Even Faster Production. And yes, lifespan of spike piles would be great too, although this would allow more lag to both players' screens if many Spike Factories were placed. Either we add 10-25% more lifespan to the spike piles or we should make the spikes have double the number of spikes to compensate low lifespan of spike piles (just as BTD Battles Flash did to compensate slow production speed).
        The reason why I suggested glue hose to be cheaper is because it can't hit moabs, therefore should be used in early game-mid game for bloons. I don't think I'll ever see somebody use glue in round 22+ unless it's for ceramics. But yes definitely agree on glue dissolver being cheaper

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        • #5
          Bloonchipper and Village are actually pretty good right now.

          Glue gunner and spike factory are useful as 4th towers.
          (Type something here...............)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by naturespirit View Post
            Bloonchipper and Village are actually pretty good right now.

            Glue gunner and spike factory are useful as 4th towers.
            The only time I have ever used glue or chipper in a battle after the end of dart-chipper-farm's reign was in a defensive tourney with only sniper, glue, spactory and chipper allowed (which was actually quite fun).
            Bloonchipper is only useful for early ceramics, pinks and blacks, and although you could argue it is useful against bfbs, it is too expensive; the bomb part of dart farm bomb is better than chippers. Get enough maulers on strong or close and you can handle infinite bfbs, versus two chippers for the same/greater price can't handle the bfb layer alone.
            Also, glue is a good fourth tower? Since when?

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            • #7
              Increase the village eco gain boost (forgot what upgrade it is exactly) and it could be useful with all sorts of towers IMO.

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              • #8
                Oh so looks like the 0/1 village doesn’t need to be changed after all.
                I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

                I forgot I have a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0...Fww_A1N9cIWF_g

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                • #9
                  I kind of wonder how a game would play out if 0/0 Glue were to cost only $10.
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                  • #10
                    Glue Gunner shouldn't be that low. 0/0 is still just a wee bit useful. The "real" Glue Gunner in my opinion should be the 1/0 Glue Gunner, which at the moment costs $470, which is far too expensive to be worth. With my suggestions of $240 for base tower and $150 for Glue Soak, that would cost $390, which is still expensive for its value but still not dramatically overpriced.
                    If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                    • #11
                      Another balance change I seriously suggest be done is the Monkey Town. For only 20% income increase from every bloon send after purchase of $10,000, is it really worth purchasing? One cannot really tap the Grouped Pinks button quicker than it can be sent out in late-game or even mid-late-game. After 15 seconds of click-click-clicking, there may be about an average of 75 groups of Grouped Pinks, adding just 75 x $0.7 = $52.5. Compare to a Grouped Pinks rush in Card Battles, which in using approx. $10,000 worth of Grouped Pinks earns $400 income. Why spend $10,000 on something that requires super fast hands to utilize just a mere $52.5 bonus income? The income increase should be 50%, not 20%. $135 bonus income is more worth going for for that $10,000 cost of Monkey Town.
                      If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by qwertyxp2000 View Post
                        Another balance change I seriously suggest be done is the Monkey Town. For only 20% income increase from every bloon send after purchase of $10,000, is it really worth purchasing? One cannot really tap the Grouped Pinks button quicker than it can be sent out in late-game or even mid-late-game. After 15 seconds of click-click-clicking, there may be about an average of 75 groups of Grouped Pinks, adding just 75 x $0.7 = $52.5. Compare to a Grouped Pinks rush in Card Battles, which in using approx. $10,000 worth of Grouped Pinks earns $400 income. Why spend $10,000 on something that requires super fast hands to utilize just a mere $52.5 bonus income? The income increase should be 50%, not 20%. $135 bonus income is more worth going for for that $10,000 cost of Monkey Town.
                        A 50% increase is overkill. It makes Eco dominate in Club, like Bananza. It is best at about 30%.

                        COBRA Cards and Portable Lakes, as well as classic button controls plz??
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Speedy05 View Post

                          A 50% increase is overkill. It makes Eco dominate in Club, like Bananza. It is best at about 30%.

                          COBRA Cards and Portable Lakes, as well as classic button controls plz??
                          Even 30% is good. But 50% increase in income would make it more viable in non-Clubs too, and plus we need a good competitor to popular farms.
                          If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                          • #14
                            But thinking about it, yes the 50% increase in income by Monkey Town would make it overpowered in Club Battles.
                            If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DestructivForce View Post
                              The only time I have ever used glue or chipper in a battle after the end of dart-chipper-farm's reign was in a defensive tourney with only sniper, glue, spactory and chipper allowed (which was actually quite fun).
                              Bloonchipper is only useful for early ceramics, pinks and blacks, and although you could argue it is useful against bfbs, it is too expensive; the bomb part of dart farm bomb is better than chippers. Get enough maulers on strong or close and you can handle infinite bfbs, versus two chippers for the same/greater price can't handle the bfb layer alone.
                              Also, glue is a good fourth tower? Since when?
                              Here are some strategies. Wizard Farm Chipper, Wizard Farm Village, Dartling Farm Village.

                              Glue provides cheap lead popping power and slows down bloons which gives you more time to pop them, it’s kinda like burny stuff from mortar except it doesn’t hit camos and slows bloons down instead. The slowing down effect from glue allows for easy moab defends since the ceramics get slowed down giving you time to pop them.
                              (Type something here...............)

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