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The most balanced tower and/or upgrade?

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  • The most balanced tower and/or upgrade?

    What tower or upgrade do you reckon is the most well-balanced, in which its power and price combined with overall value is just right?

    In my opinion, it's the Lightning Bolt. For $1200, it is expensive to purchase for Wizard players early-game, but once bought is effective against many early-game rushes, particularly because of the Lightning being able to reach anywhere on the track being able to catch passing early Pinks. When combined with another low-level Wizard, a Lightning Wizard can easily defends Round 6 rushes but with a fairly high price attached to it. Lightning Bolt to me isn't overpowered because Lightnings themselves isn't cost-effective against hugely rushed Fast Bloon rushes (Round 8-10 rushes like huge Yellows or huge Pinks require about 2 Lightning Wizards to defend well against them, more than twice the cost of what would be bought by Round 4, and also income may probably be developing around $400-500 by Round 8 or possessing between equivalent to 3 and 5 More Bananas Farms), themselves poor against largely grouped Zebras even with multiple Lightning Wizards, themselves is immensely cost-ineffective against Black-and-above Regrow Rushes (unlike towers like 3/x Boomer), and that it themselves cannot defeat Ceramics very well. Alongside the unique capability of being able to target multiple of any bloon with ease without requiring microing (as in the case of Dartling and Heli), it makes it a well-round tower of popping general weak bloons or for general far-reached weak bloons that manage to nearly reach the exit, making it helpful in many cases. The current amount of pops each Lightning pops at once is a perfect amount that doesn't pop too many bloons but at the same time has enough popping power to clean up the weaker bloons nearer the exit that manage to sneak through defense.
    If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

  • #2
    I’m going to appear on naturespirit’s behalf because I predict that he’s going to say Dart Monkey.

    And you know what? I’ll go with Dart as well. I’m pretty sure it’s the only tower in which every 3rd and 4th tier upgrade is usable, but not broken. (Sub may be a contender as well, but it might be a bit on the overpowered side.)
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    • #3
      When evaluating the Dart Monkey, there are multiple upgrades that seem quite balanced. The two dart pierce upgrades do decent bonus to the Dart Monkey's popping power, granting +1 and +2 to each upgrade increment for $140 and $170 respectively. The first range upgrade does decent bonus range, while the second range upgrade adds extra range but also bonuses on granting relatively cheap Camo detection, which is fair for $90 and $160 respectively. Spike-o-Pult makes a great starter to anti-grouped bloon defense for the $500 of 40 pierce. Juggernaut is a unique upgrade of Dart Monkey because of its independent capability of popping Frozen Bloons and Lead Bloons, and for $1900 is can pop these bloons with ease as well as crush more damage to Ceramics, as well as pop about 200 bloons. Triple Darts is a major game-changer in that it is cheap but surprisingly effective early-game, particularly against early-game rushes, so changing to $475 instead of $330 was a good idea. As for the most powerful upgrade, Super Monkey Fan Club, for an ability that is capable of transforming up to 10 Dart Monkeys into Super Monkeys (even those that can do +2 or +4 pierce, have extra range, or even detect camos) is a pretty nice upgrade for the price of $8000, rendering the cost of even cheap 0-0 Dart Monkeys useful. Even when the duration is for only 11 seconds, it tends to do wonders in crushing down single-focused rushes (such as BFB-only rushes, grouped MOAB-only rushes, and several other common rushes against Dart players).

      Interestingly enough, I imagine them as "chess pawns", being cheap but quite flexible to use despite their initial lack of specialty. Despite a lack of single specialty, they are capable of making more useful actions, such as front-diagonal captures, en passant, and promotion, when they advance forward in development. In fact, almost all chess moves start off with pawns (the only other possible way is with a knight, though I imagine a cross between Boomerang and Sniper as a chess knight because of Boomerang Thrower's curvature flexibility and Sniper's single target movement).

      As for whether they are still balanced, they are still pretty effective even though they are overused often. Too much nerfs can cause them to be extremely inflexible and not worth using. At the current state, Dart Monkey rates have been pretty consistent and overall is fairly beatable with several early-game rushes such as Round 2 Grouped Reds to force a Triple Darts, Round 4 Pinks to force more defense, Round 6 Black-Pink combos to further force more defense, Round 8 Yellows to force a Spike-o-Pult, Round 8 White-Black-Pink combos to further force more defense, Round 10 Leads to force a Juggernaut or other lead-detector, Round 11 Lead-Zebra combos to confuse the defense. Despite repetitiveness in the rate of loadouts, Dart Monkeys defend pretty decently against quite a lot of rushes while the opponent does a reasonable amount of development hurt to the Dart user, whether it be hurt to the Dart user's income, usually Farm development, or hurt the Dart user's to-be-ready rush offense. At the current state, the prices and power do pretty fine at the moment.

      If I were to say one thing about requiring modifications is probably making the Path-2 upgrades more worth purchasing when purchasing catapult-type upgrades. Probably a +10 pierce increase for Sharp Shots and another +10 pierce bonus for Razor Sharp Shots when it comes to Spike-o-Pult, and then possibly nerfing the Juggernaut pierce to 100 and adding several bonuses in pierce from Path-2 upgrades to bring it back to 200 pierce (but still unsure whether the Juggernaut pierce nerf would be sensible, as it's already expensive to purchase anyway, even though 100 pierce vs 200 pierce makes little difference).
      If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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      • #4
        I think the Boomerang Monkey is well balanced. The Tier 4 upgrades are good for the Mid-Late Game, and the 2/3 and 3/0 aren't bad for early game either.

        Though I think Sonic Boom is basically worthless, even for $50, because Ice Towers are pretty much useless, and this upgrade will only come into play if it's in Random Trio. I think to make it more unique, it could go to $100, and make the Boomerangs/Glaives fly faster, and make Glaive Ricochets pop bloons faster. Or, Red Hot Rangs could be the 0/1 at a cost of $150, and the new 0/2 upgrade could be converted into an Attack Speed upgrade for like $250, helping to brige the gap between the 0/2 and 0/3 upgrades a bit.

        I think Farms (Path 1 Upgrades) need price nerfs as they're pretty much a must-have on all maps except for a few maps like Ice Flow. Dart Monkeys are also overused, but buffing some of the other underused towers like Spike Factory, Chipper, Village, Ice Towers, Snipers, and to an extent Tack Shooters and Bomb Towers would help give more interesting options.

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        • #5
          For me, it's either gonna be buccaneer or dart.
          The bloonchipper is the best.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ptolemy2002 View Post
            For me, it's either gonna be buccaneer or dart.
            lol, bucc is OP.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Luke Carney View Post

              lol, bucc is OP.
              Especially on patch xd
              I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

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              • #8
                I’m going to say Ice tower but its balanced for the opposite reason. It’s either really really good or really really bad. Ice shards or even a 2/2 ice completely destroy regrow leads, but it blanks vs whites and zebras and can even whiff when defending and everything zips by. Ice shards can deal massive damage to MOABs if fed with eco bloons or ai but basically deal 0 damage otherwise.
                I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

                I forgot I have a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0...Fww_A1N9cIWF_g

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                • #9
                  One other upgrade at the moment that I am satisfied in the amount of power vs price and overall balance is the Double Shot Ninja. Similarly to Lightning Wizard, once bought early-game it does pretty well against most rushes. However, for the Double Shot Ninja, since it is not a grouped-popping tower, it is fair that it's $700 for the upgrade itself only can deal well by itself for up until Round 6 full-out Greens or Round 8 full-out Yellow rushes. It is also expensive to get a Double Shot Ninja early-game but does pretty decently at defending once bought. In my opinion, $700 is a much fairer price than $850 for Double Shot upgrade because it seems to only moderately hurt the amount of eco gain or farm gain. By Round 4, one should expect about $300 eco for eco-money people or approximately 2 More Bananas Farms' worth of income for farmer people. Compared to $6 eco more hurt from making the price of that Double Shot as $850, the $700 price tag is also $6 eco more hurt than the $550 price priced before, which is far too cheap for its effectiveness. Also, for $1700 total for the 3/1 Ninja compared to $1950 for 2/0 Wizard makes 3/1 Ninja acceptably less valuable than the 2/0 Wizard due to 3/1 Ninja's slightly less able capability of countering full-out Grouped Bloon rushes than 2/0 Wizard's reliability against Grouped Bloon rushes.

                  By the way, Buccaneer is not overpowered, at least after Round 10 where it may start to fail in reliability. But yes, Buccaneer is surprisingly effective early-game using an eco-based strategy. If going eco, aim for a 3/0 Destroyer while sending enough bloons to sustain enough time of income for the upgrade, or purchasing multiple 0/1 Grape Shot Buccaneers while you send out eco bloons at the opponent. And also effective as for farmer players – Build a 1/0 Farm and build in a 0/0 Buccaneer, then Grape Shot if opponent sends Grouped Reds or other grouped eco bloons. In fact, the 3/1 Destroyer is pretty useful until beyond Round 9. Destroyer is not good against Regrow Bloons without aid of more popular anti-regrow towers (such as Glaive Ricochet) nor is it effective against destroying BFBs even when there are multiple Destroyers. Cannon Ship isn't very effective against mass Grouped Regrow Leads because of its unreliable shooting of bombs.
                  If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BTD Battles Scrub View Post

                    Especially on patch xd


                    in all seriousness, Monkey pirates is the only ability in the game that isn't effected by ramping, which might make it the most op ability in the game. The only exceptions are abilities like sabotage or AZ, but those dont deal damage.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Luke Carney View Post



                      in all seriousness, Monkey pirates is the only ability in the game that isn't effected by ramping, which might make it the most op ability in the game. The only exceptions are abilities like sabotage or AZ, but those dont deal damage.
                      Neither is misdirection and pirates won’t do anything to ZOMGs or fc MOABs.
                      I saw a button that said edit post signature so I did.

                      I forgot I have a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0...Fww_A1N9cIWF_g

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DaScavenger View Post
                        I think the Boomerang Monkey is well balanced. The Tier 4 upgrades are good for the Mid-Late Game, and the 2/3 and 3/0 aren't bad for early game either.

                        [...]
                        I agree that Boomerang is pretty well-balanced considering it is excellent for mid-game and also early-game.
                        If I can complete any Daily Challenge NAPS, then it should be extremely easy to complete.

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                        • #13
                          As for Bloons, I think being able to send a Yellow Rush by Round 8 is balanced. I mean, it forces your opponent to have a decent defence, but at the same time you can end up wasting money if they get a certain upgrade like a 3/0 Cannon or something.

                          The 6 Spaced Blues you can send on Round 2 need to be buffed to Greens, because I mean, who even sends those Spaced Blues other than Noobs in Yellow Stadium playing for the first time?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DaScavenger View Post
                            The 6 Spaced Blues you can send on Round 2 need to be buffed to Greens, because I mean, who even sends those Spaced Blues other than Noobs in Yellow Stadium playing for the first time?
                            It would be too OP. Plus, you can mix the reds and blues to make it some harder for less eco.
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                            • #15
                              Wizard is one of the most balanced towers currently. It can be a very rewarding tower, but it also has a lot of punishments and weaknesses. For example, r13, bfbs, etc. Also lightning is very expensive for what it does.
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