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  • #16
    Originally posted by TheBloonGuy View Post

    The main difference is that Betsy DeVos has publicly voiced her views strictly against public education (public education is certainly necessary, as many people 1. aren't able to afford a private/charter school, 2. wouldn't benefit from a private/charter school, or 3. are just against this whole pay-to-win attitude about education - just because someone is poor shouldn't mean that they're automatically unable to get a satisfactory education), while Michelle Obama legitimately cared about the health of the children of the next generation. She tried to make sure kids ate healthy and got active to try to curb the steady rise of childhood obesity that had been taking place along with the rise of technology. And honestly, such behavior is quite common among First Ladies - they usually have some central issue that they want to focus on and make better. In this case, Michelle Obama's main platform was childhood obesity. (Melania Trump's platform is supposed to be cyber-bullying. I'll support her as much as I can in this endeavor, even though I don't personally like the Trump administration. I think cyber-bullying is a huge issue and I would really enjoy seeing some reform, especially over things like body image and the like)
    OK, while I do know that public education is a staple of a modern human society, that's not to say that the American education system could use some work. For example, Common Core, and the HUGE emphasis public schools (including the one I went to) put on testing. Testing is by no means an accurate method of determining student success-it's unnatural, inaccurate for situations that students encounter in the real world, and throws a lot of stress on students for no real good reason. And the "one-size-fits-all" nature of the Common Core doesn't work very well for a diverse set of people with different interests. Yes I know there are basic skills people need to know like reading and writing and math, etc., and that the Common Core SUPPOSEDLY helps people get into colleges easier by eliminating dissonance between college entrance requirements and high school graduation requirements, but really, it practically makes no sense that biology and chemistry are required to graduate high school, yet life skills like filing taxes or financial education are not. However, it DOES makes sense when you realize that the American education system is built around ensuring that a fresh workforce of people who can needlessly complete any task given to them, NOT necessarily ensuring that the children in question have what it takes to make it on their own, or perhaps find a new and creative way to do something. While it is true that there needs to be an educated population, but there also has to be one where people can innovate, determine their own paths in life, and focus on what they believe is right for themselves, and right now, I don't think the American education system is quite that right now.

    While Michelle Obama may have wanted to keep children healthy, she didn't really help out with helping kids learn to make healthy decisions. Well intentions, poor execution. Her plan focused on trying to make the decisions for children. While I do know that kids need to be given healthy options, they should also be given choices so they KNOW to choose those healthy options. When Michelle Obama started pushing the classic liberal ideology of regulation, regulation, regulation on school lunches, there was nothing but backlash. The quality of food dropped notoriously low, while Michelle Obama's kids got the benefit of catered lunches at the private school they went to. Rather than make healthy options look more attractive, Michelle Obama did the opposite-I tasted fast food and when compared to what my school served me, McDonalds looked like McRamsays. Honestly, I rarely bothered to watch what I ate in high school-for me, I was just like "PCCHHHT. The government is making all the decisions for me. Why should I bother to make healthy choices if I have no choice?" I learned to adore fast food, rather than deplore it. It's not just the intentions (which are VERY difficult to determine, I'm just ASSUMING her intentions were good), it about developing plans that work and are acceptable and logical-heck, the fact that Michelle's kids were not affected or probably even influenced by her plan probably speaks how crappy it is.)

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    • #17
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mk 214 EX View Post

        OK, while I do know that public education is a staple of a modern human society, that's not to say that the American education system could use some work. For example, Common Core, and the HUGE emphasis public schools (including the one I went to) put on testing. Testing is by no means an accurate method of determining student success-it's unnatural, inaccurate for situations that students encounter in the real world, and throws a lot of stress on students for no real good reason. And the "one-size-fits-all" nature of the Common Core doesn't work very well for a diverse set of people with different interests. Yes I know there are basic skills people need to know like reading and writing and math, etc., and that the Common Core SUPPOSEDLY helps people get into colleges easier by eliminating dissonance between college entrance requirements and high school graduation requirements, but really, it practically makes no sense that biology and chemistry are required to graduate high school, yet life skills like filing taxes or financial education are not. However, it DOES makes sense when you realize that the American education system is built around ensuring that a fresh workforce of people who can needlessly complete any task given to them, NOT necessarily ensuring that the children in question have what it takes to make it on their own, or perhaps find a new and creative way to do something. While it is true that there needs to be an educated population, but there also has to be one where people can innovate, determine their own paths in life, and focus on what they believe is right for themselves, and right now, I don't think the American education system is quite that right now.
        Okay I certainly agree with you on the whole standardized testing thing - I wrote an entire essay about it last semester. But DeVos's job is more than just regulating standardized tests - and besides, most standardized tests are issued on the state- or district-level anyways. And some tests (like the SAT, SAT Subject Tests, or ACT) are crucial to providing information towards colleges. But I'm not here to preach that the educational system is perfect - in fact, it's far from it. However, it's been that way for a long time, but I don't think DeVos is going to be the person to fix it. She doesn't have experience in the very things that she's going to be in charge of (e.g. financial aid, public education). Now, I've been fortunate enough to attend a school that tailors to my own educational needs (e.g. I'm in some of the highest math/science classes, but I'm not in a very high English). While Common Core certainly isn't perfect, I don't necessarily think it would work to just straight-up get rid of it - it's kind of the same thing as Obamacare; rather than just getting rid of it, we can (and should) fix it, as repealing it would be disastrous for so many people (In the case of Obamacare, that number is upwards of 20 million people). Now, I personally don't have much background knowledge about this subject. But I'm sure the system can easily be tweaked to something more along the lines of: instead of teaching children what to think, we need to teach them how to think.

        Thanks for keeping this discussion civil btw.

        And to address your point about Michelle Obama's work with food, she originally had good intentions and I think she would have gotten our school lunches to go in the right direction. However, (correct me if I'm wrong) her plan was kinda ruined by the many corporations who sell unhealthy food (like Coca-Cola, for example) because they firstly endorsed her and then convinced her to focus more on the exercise portion of her platform rather than the food part - after all, they didn't want to lose money, did they? The plan did originally start off with food and making it more healthy, but eventually that platform was kinda abandoned. But I speak with pretty extreme confidence when I say that yes, her exercise campaign did have a positive impact.
        Last edited by TheBloonGuy; 29-01-17, 05:43 PM.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by TheBloonGuy View Post

          Okay I certainly agree with you on the whole standardized testing thing - I wrote an entire essay about it last semester. But DeVos's job is more than just regulating standardized tests - and besides, most standardized tests are issued on the state- or district-level anyways. And some tests (like the SAT, SAT Subject Tests, or ACT) are crucial to providing information towards colleges. But I'm not here to preach that the educational system is perfect - in fact, it's far from it. However, it's been that way for a long time, but I don't think DeVos is going to be the person to fix it. She doesn't have experience in the very things that she's going to be in charge of (e.g. financial aid, public education). Now, I've been fortunate enough to attend a school that tailors to my own educational needs (e.g. I'm in some of the highest math/science classes, but I'm not in a very high English). While Common Core certainly isn't perfect, I don't necessarily think it would work to just straight-up get rid of it - it's kind of the same thing as Obamacare; rather than just getting rid of it, we can (and should) fix it, as repealing it would be disastrous for so many people (In the case of Obamacare, that number is upwards of 20 million people). Now, I personally don't have much background knowledge about this subject. But I'm sure the system can easily be tweaked to something more along the lines of: instead of teaching children what to think, we need to teach them how to think.

          Thanks for keeping this discussion civil btw.

          And to address your point about Michelle Obama's work with food, she originally had good intentions and I think she would have gotten our school lunches to go in the right direction. However, (correct me if I'm wrong) her plan was kinda ruined by the many corporations who sell unhealthy food (like Coca-Cola, for example) because they firstly endorsed her and then convinced her to focus more on the exercise portion of her platform rather than the food part - after all, they didn't want to lose money, did they? The plan did originally start off with food and making it more healthy, but eventually that platform was kinda abandoned. But I speak with pretty extreme confidence when I say that yes, her exercise campaign did have a positive impact.
          I always find it that debates are better when people actually debate using logical points rather than flaming each other.

          I think the reason Michelle's food plan was abandoned was because of the large amounts of negative backlash the program was getting. Students complained that their food was getting horrible in quality, schools were complaining that their food was getting more expensive to produce, parents were complaining that they were paying for bad food, and a lot more people were complaining about how much the program was costing in taxes. Even then, I still remember having food throughout my high school years considerably getting worse in quality, and some foods getting really expensive or eliminated altogether. I do not think these over-regulations on food really really helped with helping kids make healthy decisions. When the "healthy" options start looking a lot worse than the "unhealthy" options, and force, not choice or appeal is what's driving students' healthy "choices", I can't call that a good program that sponsors healthy eating. While I agree that her exercise program was better executed and ultimately had a positive impact, I think what might have had a just as big or even bigger impact would be Pokemon GO. Now, I know it sounds preposterous that a mobile game would be more capable of achieving positive change than a funded government program, Pokemon GO did a great job of getting gamers-a demographic known for being sedentary, active-helping one of the most exercise-deprived groups get fit. That's something I can say with confidence Michelle's exercise program didn't achieve.

          Now , where does this connect with DeVos? Well, Michelle Obama has NO experience being a nutritionist or physician. She gained more authority in regulating school nutrition than most, if not all the physicians and nutritionists in the country based on a few documents and a diamond ring. If it is still possible that she had good intentions, had a good program that could work, and could achieve, and did achieve positive results, in spite of her lack of experience, then the same could be said for DeVos. If DeVos' views are enough to unqualify her for her position, it could be argued that Michelle Obama's views could be enough to not allow her to implement the programs she did. But since people still gave Michelle Obama a chance, I guess people could still give Betsy DeVos one.
          Hello, it's me, Mk 214 EX, back again! Current Avatar: Super Saiyan Monkey?

          My NK profile, probably collecting cobwebs that I'm not even going to bother cleaning up.

          Do you want to be added to the NK Skype group? PM me!

          More stuff will be added with time. Patience is a virtue.

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