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MvM Overhaul - Version 2.0

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  • MvM Overhaul - Version 2.0

    A while ago, I made a thread discussing how Monkey vs Monkey could be improved to better represent your skill level in the game, like what NK intended.
    I know this game doesn't get any more updates, minus the Easter(?), Halloween, and Christmas themes, but I'm still throwing this out there.

    I made a few adjustments to make it a bit more balanced.
    Minimum and Maximum bloontonium sent is now varied by the amount of honor your opponent has, as well as the city level.

    Default minimum and maximum bloontonium values are still the same (if you have 0 honor), then the amount of honor they have is added to those values (minimum is capped at 11k if it is not a revenge attack so it's not PTW). This gives an incentive for higher level honor people to send hard attacks and test their true skill.
    For those going for ZOMG city honor, have fun defending round 5 & 6 MOABs (maybe round 4?) in MvM. (Yep, this change will make it possible. )

    Instead of the game taking the two players' honor values and determining their honor changes from that, simply use their win percentages.
    Rohan said on the archive forums that this would be a good way to fix the Honor system, so why not implement it now that he's an admin?

    The base honor value will be your city level, which I'll refer to as k and a 'loss factor', l, which Topper is referring to in this post. I'll use l = 0.2 here as a baseline, this value depends on how much honor the player has as well.
    An honor multiplier will then be applied on harder tracks, the same multiplier used in track replays to be exact (if you look at the rewards you'll know what I'm talking about). (This multiplier only applies to the defender)
    Here's an example (same one I used before, with a few edits):

    Player 1, level 12 - attacked 15 times and won 7 times, defended 12 times and won 6 times.
    Player 2, level 10 - attacked 4 times and won 3 times, defended 5 times, and won 1 time.

    Therefore the win percentage for each player is 47% atk, 50% def and 75% atk, 20% def respectively.

    Then these win percentages are weighted like this to ensure that the base win rate for both players is 50% (before the win % is accounted for):
    attackWinRateP1 = attackWinPercentageP1 / max(attackWinPercentageP1 + attackWinPercentageP2,1E-9)
    attackWinRateP2 = attackWinPercentageP2 / max(attackWinPercentageP1 + attackWinPercentageP2,1E-9)
    defendWinRateP1 = defendWinPercentageP1 / max(defendWinPercentageP1 + defendWinPercentageP2,1E-9)
    defendWinRateP2 = defendWinPercentageP2 / max(defendWinPercentageP1 + defendWinPercentageP2,1E-9)
    The max part is set into play so if one of the players has no attack wins nor losses, the number will be set to 0 by default.

    Which in this case will come out as:
    attackWinRateP1 = 0.467 / (0.467 + 0.75) = 0.467 / 1.217 = 0.368
    attackWinRateP2 = 0.75 / (0.467 + 0.75) = 0.75 / 1.217 = 0.632
    defendWinRateP1 = 0.5 / (0.5 + 0.2) = 0.5 / 0.7 = 0.714
    defendWinRateP2 = 0.2 / (0.5 + 0.2) = 0.2 / 0.7 = 0.286

    Player 1 attacks Player 2 on Totems.

    If player 1 wins, then he will gain:
    12 * (1 - 0.368) = 8 honor
    and player 2 will lose 10 * 1.35 * (0 - 0.286) * 0.2 = 1 honor.
    If player 2 wins, then he will gain:
    10 * 1.35 * (1 - 0.632) = 5 honor
    and player 1 will lose 12 * (0 - 0.714) * 0.2 = 2 honor.
    Numbers are rounded accordingly.

    So ELO still somewhat plays a role in this honor system, but this is much more accurate for determining a player's skill level IMO.
    There's also the assaults and matchmaking system (which is still broken to this day), which I've already covered here, so no need to rehash them.
    Mainly directed towards the admins, but I want everyone else's fair share as well.
    Last edited by Junior Monkey; 20-02-17, 08:24 PM.
    Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

  • #2
    Hasn't he said that he has to wait until the higher-ups like the Harris Bros etc. to greenlight such a thing?
    Current Avatar: Riddel (Chrono Cross)

    The grandest way to protest the unjust is to insist on being punished by the unjust.
    BTD5 Rank: 83 | BMC Levels: 40 and 37; 32 on Mobile | NK Level: 36
    YouTube channel | My Ratings System

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    • #3
      Well, I found the post that says that, but on the Mobile thread. Maybe he can do something with the Flash community as they're all in Auckland. Could be wrong on this though.
      I'll still give the other admins their thoughts. I mean, I'm a all-rounder BMC veteran player so I've got plenty of experience.
      Last edited by Junior Monkey; 20-02-17, 06:24 AM.
      Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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      • #4
        There won't be any updates to BMC so no chance to make this happen unfortunately We were looking at possible changes, but because we can't get the time we just something small to deal with the issues players were having (2x honor for hardcore was the outcome)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Aaron
          There won't be any updates to BMC so no chance to make this happen unfortunately We were looking at possible changes, but because we can't get the time we just something small to deal with the issues players were having (2x honor for hardcore was the outcome)
          ... and sadly, I was expecting this response too.
          Does this also mean the matchmaking system will remain crippled the way it is now (and for the past year and a half)? At least fix that ...

          I'm still leaving this here in case a miracle happens. Somehow...
          Last edited by Junior Monkey; 20-02-17, 08:33 PM.
          Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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          • #6
            Not being able to find matches? It seems to be because of how strict it is with finding close honor/level which should be a quick change. So I'm hopeful

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            • #7
              Yeah... 'round 3600 honor now and I'm having no dice. Since 2800 honor, this was an issue for me (or at least that's what I recall from the first email I sent to support). I think grouping by the honor bands would work.
              Well, hopefully it gets resolved soon. Now then, anyone else?
              Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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              • #8
                Aaron Is there an ETA for the fix?
                I don't imagine the bloontonium limit changes taking that long either, but there's probably more that I'm missing.
                I'm not trying to force an update to the game, nor pester the community, but I'm trying to make the game a bit more fun for higher level players, since everything's pretty much gone stale by then.
                Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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                • #9
                  Nope, no ETA for changes to the matchmaking parameters


                  There's nothing broken as far as we know. It's all just the system being very strict.
                  There is no one working on BMC at the moment. Any changes will happen when we can get the engineers time away from other projects.

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                  • #10
                    Understandable. So you're just the BTD5 and blog guy it seems.
                    Wouldn't mind if I joined 'em, heheh.
                    Last edited by Junior Monkey; 23-02-17, 05:30 AM.
                    Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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                    • #11
                      Aaron On a related note to MvMs, were monkey teams intentionally meant to give bloonstones for beating an attack?
                      (I'm noticing a lot more bug reports on this subject, me inclusively, so I'm curious.)
                      Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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                      • #12
                        I think it's supposed to apply to any tile capture. Sort of like getting a MKP.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aaron
                          I think it's supposed to apply to any tile capture. Sort of like getting a MKP.
                          'Tis what I figured. Looks like another bug for the engineers to look at.
                          If an admin made the bug report thread instead of a (relatively) inactive mod, these bugs would have been sorted out a lot quicker.
                          I'm leaving it up to the rest to anyone else interested since most of this most is me and admin talk.
                          Ratings, Accepted DCs, My NK Mods, Friday the 13th, NK Day of the Dead

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                          • #14
                            There aren't going to be any updates so unless something new starts breaking there won't be any bug fixes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                              Not being able to find matches? It seems to be because of how strict it is with finding close honor/level which should be a quick change. So I'm hopeful
                              I am getting this problem too, this especially happens when there are MvM event, allowing me to do one attack, then constantly getting the "no match found" error for hours.

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